Define a “cleaned” coin

My question is if TPG's uses their so-call Preservation and conservation techniques are this also cleaning?

 

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Excellent Topic!

I have to think on this, because occasionally I use pressurized distilled water to wash away dirt. Nothing too forceful just about the pressure of a home tap water faucet and always at room temp.

 

I would agree with you, but would have to add a rider to your bill, including the words, "solid objects, as well as metal dissolving chemicals may not come into contact with the coin during conservation"

 

Yes, but how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...

A coin is cleaned if A) you cleaned it or B) there is evidence (scratches, etc.) that it has been cleaned.

A coin has not been cleaned A) if you (including TPG's) can't tell it.

 

I recently sent in and received a group of three cent nickels to/from NGC. Several that came back unc details looked very similar to some that were straight graded. Of course the value of a similar looking details and "uncleaned" coins is significant. It's too bad our hobby is so obsessed with virgin coins. I wonder how many times some "detailed" coins get resubmitted and later get a straight grade. I guess the silver lining is that if you want a nice looking coin in your collection but can't afford a straight graded one, then a details coin may be affordable.

IMO, any coin that has gone through any process of chemical dipping has been cleaned.

 

There are two "meanings" of cleaning. If you are talking about non numismatic cleaning, then anything applied to the object can be called "cleaning." If you are discussing numismatic items then anything that effects the metal of the coin is considered "cleaning." Examples of what is not numismatically considered cleaning is rinsing a coin in distilled water or cleaning pvc residue from a coin with acetone, neither of which has an effect on the coin's metal and is permitted by TPGS and would not be labeled "details cleaned." I have used both of these methods on coins submitted to TPGs and never received a details notation on the holder.

 

I agree. They say buy the coin and not the holder, so why should a supposedly cleaned coin that is indiscernible from a "normal" coin take a 50%+ hit in value? It's already been stated that, even under a strict definition, most coins have been "cleaned".

 

I understand what you said. Removing pvc residue is cleaning since you are removing something, whether or not it has a chemical effect on the coin. Chemicals in the air react with a coins metal surface so if you want to nitpick things, aren't they all details then? Some people pay a lot of money for chemically altered, toned coins. How many early red copper coins were dipped at one time and received straight grades.

 

(and there is the factual reality of the situation)
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From what i understand the graders dont really check coins like a forensic laboratory would, analyzing trace chemicals found in soaps, detergents, acetone, etc. So if you have damage from cleaning, then it is cleaned.​

* Congrats Kentucky, marked yours as the best answer!

 

Where did you find my high school picture? My head looks smaller these days without hair.

 

OMG!!!!!!!

 

I recently met a dealer at the Chicago Coin Expo who confided to me that he uses Dawn dish detergent on alll his hand greased uncirculated-looking coins before he submits them as uncirculated to NGC.

He showed me a few nickels he had "Dawned" with him, in their slabs. (Kinda sickened me.)

 

What do you call a coin that was submitted to TPG for restoration, which can be done now from a supposedly an expert at the grading service. why don't they show how they do this, and what is put on the slab as a grade? after finished. (PROFFECIALY CLEANED)? must have some kind of hairlines

 

See, the thing is, I've got plenty of coins that had only "insignificant" evidence of cleaning when I bought them -- but it's significant to me now, because I've learned more about cleaning and its signs.

I paid more for some of those coins than I would now, because now I can tell that they're cleaned, and as a result I know that they should sell for a lower price.

 

Hairlines are left by wiping.

Question for our knowledgeable members...do the TPG's ever ruin coins they are conserving? What is their response if they do...Oops?

 

And a separate post for a separate, but related, thought:

If you develop such a discerning eye that you can detect the slightest flaws or signs of damage on any coin -- have you really increased your enjoyment of the hobby? If there are lots of coins that once looked beautiful to you, but now look fatally flawed, the end result is that you see fewer coins you consider beautiful. That seems like... not necessarily a good thing.

 

Basically conservation involves removing oils from handling and removes dirt and grime through the use of special solvents engineered to leave the metal of a coin free of damage or discoloration.

These solvents are used in conjunction with specialized brushes that do not leave any hairlines on the coins surface.

The details of this process vary from tpg to tpg and are closely guarded secrets. ​

 

I've had similar experiences with coins that seem to change color within their slabs due to cleaning agents that can reveal themselves to us, the unsuspecting and overconfident of buyers of recently certified coins.