Opinions about metal detecting historic cemetaries

Okay, DJP and everyone on here, I talked with a friend of mine that is a member of a graveyard preservation society in my area, and this is what she told me.

It will be okay for you to metal detect in the graveyard itself, (even though you are asking about the surrounding area), as long as you don't damage or desecrate the graves, dig up any graves, or dig up a coffin and steal from the coffin itself. It is your property, and you should use your best judgement on where to detect in the graveyard. It is your property. And what you aksed on doing is nothing to get put down by people for. And accused of grave robbing. This is far from graverobbing, anyone want to learn about grave robbing just type in "define: grave robbing" into google and you will see this is not anywhere close to grave robbing. It is better for people like you I guess to find any money or something rather than people stealing it in the future and possibly damaging graves and the graveyard itself in the future. I think whatever you decide though you should contact your town you are in and let them know about the graveyard, so it can be possibly preserved.

Now guys, if he asked about digging up the graves and everything, then that would be wrong. But he didn't. He asked about the surrounding area and such like it. But it would still be okay if he detected in the graveyard, as long as he just doesn't mess any graves or such up. The money he finds isn't the graveyard's, it is his. She also told me that you might want to talk with your lawyer about your rights and everything with the grave yard (not that it's that big of a deal just to find a few coins, but sometimes something to consider just in case). Now this was another thing she told me. What you might do is any money you find or anything you can set aside (if it's not of any collecting value of course ) and donate to a local preservation society in your area, or to try to get that graveyard preserved and all. She told me all that plus some more, just can't remember it all. My thought is with everything that was said though, it probably isn't that worth it, but I wanted to tell you what my friend said. But don't have any thought in your mind man that you are "grave robbing" man, because you aren't. Best of luck man. :thumb:

*edited to add: In the end it is your desision, no matter what anyone here tells you really man. But I think you'll make the right one. :thumb: Best of lcuk on whatever you decide, I'll shut up now.

Phoenix

 

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No matter what

No matter what the "correct" answer is, it sounds like you have a very interesting property and family history! You have a historic gem sitting in your backyard and nobody even knows about it!

Steve

 

That is very interesting. There is a strong sentiment in the US that property is an absolute thing, and there are very strong constitutional guarantees about the state's non-interference with property. But there is no denying that property is not an absolute concept. Especially as we move forward into the future, there is all kinds of needed constraints on land use, even if the property is private. Aside from the fact that nearly every land deed in the US goes back to a native american land grant, which are sometimes challenged in court and WON to the dismay of the property owners, obviously all kinds of cultural and environmental impacts need to be accounted for. Obviously one shouldn't be able to damn a river that runs through your land. But this cemetary issue brings to light other cultural aspects. You may need a permit to even investigate cemetary, let alone remove it or dig it up!. And most people don't have miniral rights. Nor does that consider air rights, right of passage, grazing rights, etc.

Eventually there will be a need for an antiquities law if one doesn't already exist.

Ruben

 

Remember the movie Poltergiest ??

Ruben

 

By no means do I agree with any of the articles that I referenced, but I also feel that the OP has done nothing to deserve being lumped together with some of the greedy people referenced in those articles.

 

Don't do it.
But if you ever do end up doing it ...never ever tell anyone that you did it.

 

Ruben, you've hit the nail on the head. Property ownership is an absolute thing in every imaginable sense depending entirely on which state you're property is located in.

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Western SD Rules
Here are a couple of answers to questions I asked today when I drove into town to visit the courthouse for other business today. Here in South Dakota it's unlawful to detect within 100ft of any (public or private) known or otherwise burial ground or in any National Forest or Grassland. It is however permissible to detect in the common area of a church, school, public building, or park as long as the hole dug is 6" or less and filled in. It's illegal to detect in the flood-plain of Rapid Creek along it's entire course to the Cheyenne River (approx. 40 miles) since that is considered to be a (grave area) due to the 1972 flood and those bodies which were never recovered.

When detecting around a church DO-NOT enter the graves area with the detector and what exactly constitutes that is up to the determination of the arresting/investigating officer.

Also, one can be reported for violating these rules by anyone who has a cell-phone and can dial 911... It is a $250 fine and there are several issued each year to tourists and others who aren't aware of these restrictions or feel like taking the chance.

Take Care
Ben

 

There was a news story in March 2007 about three men convicted of grave robbing for metal detecting in a cemetary.

From the US National Parks website:
Chesapeake & Ohio Canal National Historical Park (DC,MD,WV)
Three Convicted For Grave Disturbance

http://data2.itc.nps.gov/morningreport, Mar 21, 2007
(May not be active now)

In April 2006, two people walking in a backcountry area of the park near Hancck, Maryland, came upon a historic cemetery with a grave that appeared to have been excavated. They reported it to authorities and an investigation ensued. Rangers confirmed that the grave of Mary Ohr, who died in 1875, had been disturbed and also found that small holes had been dug into the ground in the area around the cemetery. Evidence indicated that metal detectors had probably been utilized in committing the crime.

The crime scene was carefully processed with the help of NPS archeologists. Even though the hole dug over the grave was only five feet deep, it was found that Ohrs casket had been entered. Last June, rangers and NPS special agents interviewed three people, all residents of Hancck, Maryland Christopher Pelchat, 24, Jonathon Carroll, 29, and James Carroll, 53. All three admitted to metal detecting and relic hunting in the park, and Pelchat and Jonathon Carroll were found to have excavated the gravesite.

They also admitted to digging 25 to 30 holes in the area before finding the gravesite. They dug there in hopes of finding jewelry in the casket. After digging down about five feet, they said that they began creeping out and abandoned their excavation, not realizing that theyd already dug through Ohrs remains.

On January 15th, Jonathon Carroll and Pelchat pled guilty in federal court to a 16 USC 470 ARPA violation. As part of a plea agreement, they were sentenced to pay the park $2,569 in restitution for the damage incurred, ordered to serve a years probation and complete 25 hours of community service in the park, required to forfeit two metal detectors, and banned from entering any NPS site for two years.

On February 20th, William Carroll pled guilty to digging cultural/archeological resources and was ordered to pay $1,015.94 in restitution to the park. In an apology letter written by Christopher Pelchat to the park, he admitted that the excavation of the grave was a stupid and very foolish thing to do.
[Submitted by Leigh Zahm]

Mar 21, 2007

 

Don't get me started on these guys - they are incredibly arrogant. They move in after somneone else has done the dirty (and expensive) work to cliam right to the site, especially in th ecases of underwater wrecks where the archeologists would never have been able to get to. I am all in favor of properly documenting the site, but they do not have a "right" to it.

 

I am not a lawyer, but it seems to be that this is grave robbing and illegal. Don't ask me to explain why it is "OK" to dig up King Tut, but to dig up Aunt Mary's gold ring is wrong and hopefully illegal.

 

It is. To go in a grave and dig up the coffin and remove anything from it, that is graverobbing, and illegal. It doesn't matter if it was your momma or Aunt Mary or anyone, it is illegal to do that, and just not right. You have no right to what is in the coffin, but he does to the surrounding area and such. If you go in the coffin or grave and take anything from it, it is grave robbing. If you go around hte surrounding area and such and find something not even a foot deep or so, that is far from grave robbing. As long as it is not near any graves, I think it's okay, and that is and has been my opinion on this matter. I have seen no evidence of him doing any wrong with what he has asked.

Phoenix

 

The point is, how would he know? Many graves are unmarked.

As a former gravedigger, I know that a layer of black dirt means you are digging through what used to be a wood coffin, but old graves are not as easily defined as some think.

 

I've made my point more than once, so I will stop. This honestly now is getting a little out of hand, (where I confess I contributed to it too, so don't think I think I am totally innocent in this) so how about a truce everyone? About everyone has voiced there opinions, and imo it is no sense really anyone getting upset over or arguing back and forth. I am sorry for pushing my point too much if it came across like that, just when I get started I get started, lol. I am sorry. But now I am done (don't think I am backing down from what I said, still stand by what I said, just said I am done ), and am no longer going to push anything. I think now we should really just leave it up to the OP to decide what he wants.

Phoenix

 

Things to consider with this. These men metal detected in a public park, not private property, and they dug purposely 5 feet down and disturbed a grave. As long as he doesn't mess with any graves (obviously digging several feet down is stupid) then he's fine.

If it wasn't his land then it would be completely different.

But he should keep into consideration that there will always be people like cloudsweeper who sincerely believe that this IS morally wrong and for the sake of keeping the peace it may be wise to respect these opinions.

In the end though legally he can do it, and it is up to him to decide whether it is unethical or not.

Also keep in mind that you are setting yourself up for temptation. I'm sure the men from the article only planned on digging around graves, but ended up falling to the temptation of searching in one. (although I'm not implieing that you are a person would fall to doing this)

 

Even though I've posted here I have to ask.

Where should we bury said horse? Should we remove his shoes?

 

Howdy JBK,

I agree with you and not him. I've always been a fan of treasure hunters and envious if you will. There are few things I'd rather do life than discover a sunken treasure ship or uncover some buried treasure. Finders bloody keepers.

That said, I am a history buff and they're welcome to the trinkets and stuff as long as I get the coins. ;-)

Ideally, I'd find it, reap the goodies, and turn over the information and data and a catalog to the historical folks and call it good.

Still would love to find one of these:

http://crazylinkz.blogspot.com/2007/02/wrecked-treasure-ships-lost-treasure.html

peace,

rono

 

I'd love to find a hidden treasure or even a hidden cache, but I've got to draw the line at digging up or even near graves, native or otherwise. Besides, you won't find much metal in old Native American graves/mounds.

One funny thing I forgot to mention in my ramble yesterday were the reasons they frowned upon digging up Native American burial grounds in the BadLands (Buffalo Gap National grasslands) or the BlackHills are...

#1, The Native American tribes still hold title to these areas and there is ongoing litigation (yes still) determining final disposition.

#2, There were lots of nasty diseases, small-pox, diphtheria, etc., which we currently may not be resistant to or inoculated against.

#3, There is an inherent danger associated with breaking tribal law which differs drastically from what we'd consider normal. Also, In the past 20 years I can recall at least three individuals who are still MISSING after venturing into the SD Badlands...

Take Care
Ben

 

I think what bonedigger wrote in a previous post is just good moral judgement. Minimum 100ft from any marked grave and less than 6" deep.

One distinction to be made with the article that willieboyd2 posted, those guys dug 5 feet down. The article also gave the impression that they were intentionally looking for remains and got cold feet at the last minute. It looks like they were granted some leniency for self-reporting the incident and working with the park administration to repair the damages (though you can never truely repair the damage to a disturbed gravesite).

 

Sounds like you're talking about getting to items which would have been on the surface several decades ago, likely long after the bodies were buried. That being the case, I don't see the problem. You're basically looking for something which fell out of a pocket (did knickers and tunics have pockets?) of someone wandering around the old cemetary 100 years ago.