Clio......why do you do this?

I cannot say if I have ever been Clio-ed but I have been beat numerous times when bidding on coins. On the other hand I have been successful many times as well. The experience can be frustrating but I always walk away with the feeling that at the very least I did make the other guy pay.

 

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Its really strange with coin auctions. CNG had a stunning Theodore I Comnenus Hyperpyron (Empire of Nicaea) estimate 3000US/ It ended up selling for $37,500US!!!!!!!
There was a super rare John VI Hyperpyron in Austrian Auction, few surviving example....I got it for 700 euros proxy bid. Had this coin been in Triton XXI/ imagine the result. Some of the highrollers will only visit the most prestigious auctions like Ars Classica/ CNG/ Kunker to bid. Sometimes, we the little people win out by looking at the lesser well know sites. I got some really high quality rarities at good prices from Savoca/ Spink/ Sincona/ Leu Numismatic/ Gallery 51/ Goldberg/ Rauch.....
John

 

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I agree. The rarest coin I own was found in an "out of the way" , auction by a newer auction house. Also I have bought from many of the auction houses you mention and I did find some good deals there.

 

I don't understand why Clios identity can't be revealed here, if it's known. What's the secret?

 

Not our place sir. Anyone who has friends in the market knows who it is, and he has been a major buyer for quite a while, but that does not mean anyone was given permission to make his name common knowledge.

 

Makes sense.

 

A number of things occurred to me while reading this thread. First I suppose is that it is true, I dont know precisely who 'Clio' may be. I have never asked (nor will I) anyone what bidder handle or alias they use. Not my business. So, as such, no, I dont really know. I can guess of course, and as a dealer I suppose I know just a tad more than others might. I do have many stories about people dropping a few hundred thousand dollars at a coin show (each show, for years on end totaling many countless millions), but again, not my place to talk about them (well, perhaps. The 'Sheik' is no longer among us, so I assume its OK to talk about the departed).

But then I also wonder, why does anyone care? It's not like any one of us (or maybe a few) are in the same league. It's not like we could win if another bidder has the resources and interest to pay more. That's what an auction is and how it works.

It also points out to me that perhaps many more people are waiting to snipe at auctions than they let on. CNG is the most prominent in this discussion. And knowing how their auctions work it shows us that the only way to know who the bidder might be is if you are bidding in the last few seconds. With their auction process you have to be watching to see who has outbid you. A second after the close of the lot the archives revert to just a price realized, with no bidder information retained.

So, does any of it matter? Does anyone know what my bidder ID might be and should I care?

These are all just rhetorical questions, though to be perfectly honest I always love reading the threads!

 

As a dealer, you have a duty to protect the identity of your customer. Even the public hints are disconcerting. My questions are rhetorical, I don't expect, nor do I want the name revealed.

As a bidder, you better learn to snipe a timed auction. I won't enumerate the reasons. Clio obviously has this figured out.

Does the bidder ID matter.....................well yes. It aways helps to understand your competition

As you can tell from some of the responses, it is better to remain anonymous. Many people are attracted to the money aspect only. That becomes old very fast.

Having said that, I would still like Clio to change hobbies.

 

We all have to look at ourselves in the mirror and ask the question.....what would we do, if in the same financial position? I will be honest,I would do exactly the same. I really admire collectors who go all out to acquire their dream coins. Money is there to be spent, why would you want to be like Warren Buffet and just hoard it in a big bank account.....boring, using it to assembly a fantastic stamp/ coin/ fossil/ classic car is a pleasurable pursuit. Some very RICH folks had tremendous collections/ Eliasberg/ Garrett/ Pogue/ Newman/ Norweb/ Dr. Adams.....good for them!

 

I agree. Plus, strategizing the best way to pick and win targets is part of the fun.

@Ken Dorney, in CNG e-auctions when the lot closes the winning bidder name is not shown initially but if you refresh the screen you will be able to see the winning bidder name for each lot until the entire auction has concluded. I've used that on several occasions to examine who won what.

Sometimes I make a note of early bidder names and when the auction closes, I look to see who held on to their lots and who lost. Doing this helps me understand who can be outbid and who can't. Sometimes I'll consider a coin but if the early bidder is someone who has proven to be difficult to outbid, I move on to greener pastures.

It's also to fun to guess who the dealer bidders are. I suspect some of the names I see often who bid early on bunches of coins are dealers looking for bargains. That would be a good strategy for a dealer.

 

Looks more like where Clio lives, maybe...

 

The dominant assumption here, it seems, is that eventually Clio's collection will come on the market. Why assume that? I think it is entirely possible that Clio is building a museum grade reference collection that will become a state treasure for some country that would give it the royal treatment. That would be collecting for permanence and not just for someone passing through.

 

That's certainly a possibility, though I for one hope it isn't the case. There are quite a few museum collections out there and 99% or more of the coins in Clio's collection would simply be duplicates of those that wouldn't do the world any good by forming yet another museum collection. What would be useful would be them being recorded, attributed and discussed in a series of auction catalogues like what has been going on with the BCD collection or the RBW collection sales where these catalogues have become new references for these types.

 

Funny to see that others have also spotted this bidder alias and bidding behaviour. One aspect I would like to contribute to this discussion, is that everybody assumes bidder Clio is a man. But Clio is a female muse, therefore wouldn't it be more rational that Clio is a woman?

I can also confirm that I haven't spotted any collecting theme Clio may have; as long as smth is a bit rare Clio will bid despite the coin being worn, off-centre and so on. Furthermore, it is a bit strange that a person with such loads of money would even care to bid on the last 3 seconds. Then such a consistent bidding at the 2-3 seconds before closure on dozens on lots per auction can only point that it is either done by specialised software or by many proxies-henchmen. I would not exclude the possibility that Clio is actually the alias used by auction houses for coins bought back because the reserve was not met. Did anyone spot coins bought by Clio appearing again in the market?

 

Clio is a man.

I haven't.

 

In all honesty I find it repulsive that so many people fault Clio for being better at what they are doing in their own amateurish way. If these things are only money to you, I wish you would change hobbies. Over the years I have met rich people and powerful people. In the Army I met a number of real jerks that were mid-grade officers but only one General that I believed was a total loser. I loved one thing about the White House: Everyone knew who the 'boss' was. Little bosses with big heads sometimes did not last long. Money means less to Clio than it does to most of us. I don't care what he pays for coins but I do admire the coin selections he makes. He has bought coins over me that were not at all expensive but had something going for them that 99% of people who love their net worth figures could not appreciate. I would like to know if Clio does his own coin selection work or if he has a staff of former CNG employees scouting for him and advising on whether the coin in question is significant. I hope he decides to open a museum in a location I can visit. I hope he publishes a book for us all to appreciate just how wonderful ancient coins can be.

If being Clioed bothers you, there is always the 'other' way of bidding. Don't bid twenty times each time one advance over someone else. Wait until near the end (5 seconds is not recommended) and bid once at the honest price you are willing to pay for the lot. Then walk away until the lot closes and you either won it or lost. You are not hurting Clio spewing out your hate - only your hobby. I do not suggest bidding early since my doing that has more than once resulted in finding a matching coin at a show but I have already bid. When I see a lot that Clio has won, I try to figure out what it was about that specimen that made it a target. The answer can be grade but it is not always. I feel stupid when I can't see the value in his purchases. Random spending? I don't think so.

I couple years ago I considered the possibility that TIF was Clio but they were reported seen in the same room at the same time with nary a phone booth in sight. Supercollectors - both of them.

 

I can never understand why anyone does this. It is so counterproductive and very aggravating! Bidding once at an honest price has rarely let me down ... and when it has let me down at least I know I tried my best.

 

LOL!

Like many, I have whined about being Clio'd but for the most part it was just jokes and an excuse to post something funny . I suspect most people here who cry CLIO!! as a curse are doing the same. There are many Clios in the ancient coin world. Sometimes I do the Clioing, sometimes I get Clioed.

Sometimes I try to substitute CLIO!! for the F-bomb, which I often drop like a ticking Tourette's patient. The hard C is satisfying when it explodes forcefully from my mouth. Did you know there's a word for that feeling?

lalochezia
lal·o·che·zi·a
(lal'ŏ-kē'zē-ă)
Emotional release gained by uttering indecent or filthy words.
[G. lalia, speech, + chezō, to relieve oneself]

 

"hobby" and "professional" are 2 not so compatible terms are they? Having a calling station black hole devouring 20% of coins at extremely high prices at each auction may make the dealers happy but greed will kill the hobby in the end. And I am sure a normal collector on a normal budget winning 1 or 2 coins per auction would cherish them more than someone who is getting thousands of coins to kill his boredom. In the end maybe all should abstain to let Clio get his coins at starting prices, let's see if the dealers and consignors will be happy then or not.