eBay Victory Challenging "No Returns on Unslabbed Coins"

I love and prefer coin shows to get what I would like. However, my collections are so specific that few have what I collect. I also don't get to travel much, so like some on here, I look online. eBay is not my preferred method, but there are times I have found exactly what I need and negotiated a fair price. In all, I have had good experiences and never got scammed or refused a return.

However, sometimes a seller's posted photos aren't the best. Is it because they are hiding flaws, or is it because the seller can't take good photos? Who knows, but even a cheap cell phone can take pretty detailed photos. Without a return policy, it is not smart to buy if you can't see the entire coin clearly.

Then there are those who have return policies and good photos, but post a caveat saying something like "coins removed from original packaging are not refunded or exchanged."

For things like TPG slabbed coins, bags of junk silver, or coins in original Mint packaging, this is understandable unless there were signs of tampering...but what about coins in sealed 2x2 flips or self slabs? Can you open those and not void the seller's return policy?

eBay says...Yes. Why? Because you have a right to open and inspect your merchandise.

For example, I purchased what was listed as a "Type 1, 90% silver quarter blank" I received it and immediately the color didn't look right. I couldn't weigh it in the 2x2, nor could I check the rim with how snug it was. Thankfully, the seller's photo was clear enough to show toning/staining spots and other marks that matched the coin I received.

So I opened it and the rim had a copper line. I weighed it and it matched the clad weight. It was not as described, but how does the seller know I didn't switch it out and cheat him? Because I took photos that matched the markings he had on his own listing. eBay said I unquestionably proved my case and the seller was forced to honor my request despite his "no return" policy on unslabbed coins; I was entitled to my money back plus the seller had to pay for me to ship it back. It is what you call "making someone whole" as I should not bear any expense in this matter.

This is a victory for buyers. You have a right to open your merchandise and verify authenticity, condition, etc. even for unslabbed coins on eBay. And use good, smart photos to help yourself avoid problems as both a buyer and seller to protect yourself.

Below is the seller's photo in the 2x2 he shipped it in, and below that are 2 photos I took to help prove my case despite me opening it.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

eBay says yes because eBay thinks they can treat sellers however they want and never have any repercussions and for some reason they seem to covet problem buyers. Coins sealed in 2x2 or flips shouldn't be returnable once removed because of the switching issue and the fact that eBay is just always going to side with the buyer like they basically always do even during blatant scams.

 

To say they should never accept returns is going a bit too far. I clearly proved my case. Should I have been denied a refund? How was I supposed to verify my purchase. And that is why good photos are important.

 

In all honesty I would say yes. If the seller said if you open it the sale is final that should be the terms. eBay is the only place where terms of the seller, or terms of the sale don't matter at all because they will just side with buyers every single time.

The problem is is that they don't take things on a case by case basis, while your return seems justified somewhere some scamming buyer is doing the same thing after switching the coins out and that seller almost certainly will have to eat that fraud.

 

I brokered large collections of rare phonograph records for several clients and listed them on eBay. As with coin collectors, there are record collectors who will pay handsomely for rare collectibles, I routinely sold vinyl albums for several thousands of dollars.

It became necessary, though, to bar some people from bidding on our auctions because they were receiving our pristine, sometimes new and sealed old stock, then claiming we sold trash in resealed envelopes. One such customer in Singapore took us for $3000.

As you wrote, eBay has no interest in protecting their sellers from such cheats, and it is precisely why I would not be interested in listing any of my own collectibles, be they coins or rare records. I have many records that could fetch several thousands myself. My spare coins are not worth the time or effort to list them. Most are just too average to bring me a profit. I would rather make trades here to someone who might be interested.

As for photographic quality, I guess I just don't have the knack. None I have would be good enough to convince a buyer that this was the coin for him.

 

So I guess you would reverse the problem with your take on it; sellers could sell whatever they want, claim it is silver, gold, etc., and just say "no return" and be scammers themselves purposely selling fake merchandise. It would be far, far worse. Some people can't leave their homes to have items in hand. Sucks to be them.

 

I honestly feel this guy tried to scam me and he lost. He even had this posted along with it:

 

A contract is voided if the merchandise is not as described

 

No, I would actually have it be more reasonable both ways and allow the terms of a sale to actually hold weight. Until eBay treats buyers and sellers as equals there's no way to view any of this except in the way that it will scam sellers. @LA_Geezer is a good example of what I am referring to. He was just trying to honestly sell some things and some scamming buyers made claims on it and won. Sealed flips or packaging ect is one of the few ways sellers used to have to protect their merchandise and now that is gone as well.

 

I totally understand and am sympathetic here to your points. But the important thing is to make it right.

 

Not exactly.

First, eBay is a private company and can make their own rules. Owning Nazi items is not illegal, but they can ban the sale of these items on their site. And if they tell me I "have a right to open up a sealed item," then I do in fact have that right.

As to your other point, I did not ask questions. What difference would it make if I asked him to verify it and he said "yes?" That no-return policy wouldnt be any different because I would still have to open it and would violate it. It was advertised as a type 1, was written on the slab, and placed on a scale saying "90%." The fact that I opened it to check it out, and it was not genuine, is a moot point in the eyes of the law. You can't violate a contract that was not good to begin with, be it intentionally or accidentally. It is that way on purpose or commerce would collapse.

Edit: Sorry. I meant to reply to your previous comment. Not the one I quoted.

 

I am not trying to come off as argumentative, I swear. I am being sincere in my questions here...

But what if I did in fact ask him in an email: "Hello, sir. Can you state for the record in this email that it is in fact a type 1, 90% silver quarter?"

His response: "ABSOLUTELY! 100%!"

Then I receive it, and it is not 90% silver but is clad. What difference would me asking make? According to the positions stated by some on here, I opened it and thus voided my return privilege.

Or what if I ask, "Can I return this if when I open it, it is not as advertised?" and he says, "Absolutely! 100%." Then I get it, it is clad, and he says "Well, I know for a fact the one I sent was silver, so you switched it, and my return policy stands! No refund!"

What then?

As far as I am concerned, it is the seller that needs to be more ironclad in preventing possible fraud. Take the time to have good photos done. I admit eBay is way too easy in their return policy, and fraud exists, but I assure you the Chinese counterfeiters would be in their glory in this hobby if eBay instead bent over backwards to do anything to protect buyers at all cost. Taking good photos of your stuff, with detail and showcasing identifying marks, would solve many problems that sellers face. Many of them are outright terrible.

 

I can see both sides of this argument and am not sure on which side I stand. But one thing I do know: I would never buy from someone with no feedbacks who said no returns. I would also not buy any item for such a price from anyone who did not have exemplary feedback.

 

That holder is from Low Country Coins, but I have never seen Low Country list pics like that before. Perhaps the seller bought it from Low Country Coins and then tried to misrepresent it for a quick buck?

 

Thanks for being polite, my friend. I enjoy this discourse. You and baseball are gentlemen and I hope to meet you guys at a show some day

 

Absolutely not, my friend. Look at the photos I posted eatlier. Same coin. Same toning. Same circular spots in the bottom. And Why would I trick someone and then post a fake story here? I'm not insulted by your suggestion though.