The issue of fakes

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by MnMShow, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. MnMShow

    MnMShow New Member

    I recently inherited/was given my mother’s coin collection. I was immediately enthusiastic about it and set about organizing it and filling in some occasional missing dates. The collection is quite large and contains coins from all denominations going back to the 1800’s. In particular though she collected a lot of morgans which we both think are pretty cool.

    I am no expert and I only recently started getting up to speed on coin collecting in general, but recently I discovered there is what looks to be an avalanche of fakes coming out of china. I initially found out about morgans but after looking into it, it looks like just about everything old and remotely valuable is being faked. Worse, the consensus I am gathering from reading numismatic blog posts about it is that the fakes are getting to be so good that even experts can be fooled.

    With this in mind, I am now leaning towards the opinion that maybe I should just liquidate the entire collection (or the vast majority of it) before it is rendered more or less worthless by fakes too realistic to tell from the originals. If even an expert can’t tell a fake from an original than the original is bound to lose value as the rare factor becomes meaningless.

    Given that I am posting this to a coin collection forum I am expecting a certain amount of bias in favor of keep on keeping on as it were. But I am curious what others think and feel on this topic.

    I know that to some extent professional grading is a partial remedy for this situation, at least to the extent that coins that were graded and slabbed some time ago are unlikely to be inauthentic. But the only graded coins I have are ones I bought myself to add to the collection. All of the coins my mom gave me are ungraded.

    I also contemplated just getting a bunch of the higher value ones from her original collection graded to hopefully get on the front side of the issue so to speak, but honestly I don’t know how bad it is. If the fakes are good enough to fool the grading organizations now then anything I have graded now may not be considered reliable later anyway.

    The whole issue kind of bums me out.
     
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  3. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    As you say, you know the provenance of these coins, so you know they're unlikely to be fake. The problem comes when you try to sell them, and the buyer has only your word (and their own knowledge) to go on.

    There are scary fakes out there, and they do seem to be getting better in spurts, but we aren't at the point of collapse yet. It's not clear that we ever will be.

    You're in the same position as everybody who deals with a market, be it collectibles, stocks, or something else. You don't know which way the market will go, and by the time a threat (or opportunity) becomes clear to most participants, the market price has already adjusted for it.

    If having the coins makes you happy, keep them. If having them makes you unhappy -- because you're worried that the market will tank, or because you're tired of tripping over them -- you should sell them now, and put the money somewhere that does make you happy.

    Only my opinion, of course.
     
    Garlicus likes this.
  4. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king.

    The general consensus that I have seen here at CT, and correct me if I am wrong, is that we view coin collecting as a hobby and not an investment. We hope that the value of our coins will rise, but generally don't view our collections in those terms.

    That being said, as jeffB pointed out, if you aren't really interested in the collecting aspect, sell the coins now and put the money into something that you enjoy, or use it to pay down debt, which can help you to enjoy life by giving you some peace of mind (like having a fully funded emergency fund).
     
  5. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    The fakes are good, but they aren't that good. There might be some people fooled some of the time, but there aren't any fakes that can fool all the experts all the time. And there never will be. I wouldn't worry too much about it - if you have genuine coins, they will always be distinguishable from fakes.

    And I don't know what blog posts you are reading, but you should be careful with those. A lot of them are clickbait, some of them are scaremongering, and many of them have a lot of misinformation. Stick to the forums here - you'll get good advice on average.
     
    Aotearoa and Beefer518 like this.
  6. jafo50

    jafo50 Active Member

    The general consensus on CT is that coin collecting is a hobby as Garlicus already stated. In your case MnMSnow your financial basis is $0 since the collection was inherited so anything that you sell is 100% profit. I'm in a similar situation with my own inherited collection. I would suggest that you start slowly and sort out any duplicate coins in your collection. Selling those lower grade duplicates will help generate some cash and give you time to collect your thoughts on the rest of your collection. If you decide to continue collecting the cash will certainly help fill in the holes in the collection.

    The bigger issue is that every coin type is being counterfeited today which is very scary. Some counterfeit coins are so good even the experts are fooled. So if you enjoy the hobby then trek on. If you are concerned with the collection losing value over time then formulate a liquidation plan.

    Good Luck
    Joe
     
  7. MnMShow

    MnMShow New Member

    I fall into both categories. :(
     
  8. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Its VERY rare for one to be so good it actually fools the real experts or fools every one of them. Once in a blue moon it does happen and eventually gets found out and the situation is fixed. In some cases like the Omega gold it actually makes the coin more valuable than it would have been before.

    The TPGs are aware of everything being made and how to detect it and have been employing more and more things to detect them to fend it off. Counterfeiting is nothing new neither is very good counterfeits.

    The whole experts getting fooled thing is overblown, its more like people presenting themselves as experts who really aren't getting fooled.
     
  9. jafo50

    jafo50 Active Member

    I agree that the experts are very difficult to fool. The problem is not everyone buys slabbed coin. Those are the people who pay the price when they find out that their cherished coin is counterfeit.
     
  10. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    No matter how good the fakes are the experts will still know the real thing from the fake. If you want to sell your coins that is a decision that almost everyone must face at one time or another. I would suggest keeping a few sentimental coins to keep that bond with your mother.
     
  11. jyoung5050

    jyoung5050 New Member

  12. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Back in the mid 1960’s I found a cheap medallion. It was a fake toy copy of a pirate Spanish cob. Was very obviously a toy. I carried that around endlessly just knowing I had a genuine pirate coin. I don’t remember who finally convinced me it was a toy replica... But I do remember thinking how absolutely low it was for anyone to do such a thing as create a fake coin. I collected feverishly up until the early 1980’s when my hobby took a backseat to raising a family.

    So with the kids grown and a little money to spend I returned to my coin passion some years ago. I refused to believe how prevelant the fake market had become and am still stunned by it. It is a black eye on our hobby to be certain.

    But far more important than that... A relative left this collection to you that gave them joy in their life. There is meaning in that act that transcends the value of a simple coin collection. Your entrusted with the lifetime love of your previous generation. Appreciate that gift for what it is.... And perhaps the coin bug will bite you too!
     
    George McClellan likes this.
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