I picked this up on a whim for a little less than $20 from someone in Spain, because I thought the reverse was interesting. It’s my first fouree, and the reverse is nicely preserved. The legitimate issue dates to 143 BC, so I assume the fouree was made sometime around then. Anonymous Republican Denarius, fouree Obverse: Helmeted head of Roma right; behind, X. Reverse: Diana, with quiver on shoulder, in biga of stags right, holding reins in left hand and torch in right hand; below, crescent; in exergue, ROMA. 18mm, 2.84g, minted at unknown mint in circa 143 BC Another interesting attribute I noticed was that most authentic examples of this coin have a four spoke wheel, while this one has eight. The only other eight spoke wheel example I turned up was this one in a German museum, which looks like it might also be a fouree (look at Diana’s head and the edges of the reverse): http://ikmk.smb.museum/object?lang=en&id=18201264&view=rs Does anyone else have any cool fourees they'd like to show off?
I also have a Republican fouree. Rome, moneyer Sabula, 74 BC, fourrée denarius, 2.96g 18mm O: Winged head of Medusa left, snakes in hair, snakes tied around neck, SABVLA upwards, all within circle of beads. R: Bellerophon (or Perseus?) on Pegasus right, aiming spear with right head; below L·COSSVTI·C·F; behind, number XXIIII, all within border of dots. Ref: Crawford 395/1 These coins have a number behind Pegasus. Each die has a unique number. The forger has copied die XXIIII. Unfortunately I haven't found a way to search online databases looking for a match. CRRO doesn't seem to offer a way to search four fourrees either.
3.78g would be heavy for a fourree like the museum coin but not impossible. I like to think that if I were making fake coins, I would slip in some little detail tht would enable me to recognize my work (and avoid it). 8 spokes would work. Many fourrees combine to sides that do not belong together. There are several explanations for why but nothing about fourrees can be proven for one issue let alone a general rule. We have another fourree thread here at present so I'll tack on a couple different Republicans and an Imperatorial.
I have two fourrees, both from the Republic era of Rome. The first is also a mule, which is not uncommon among Republican fourrees. Roman Republic fourée mule denarius L. Antestius Gragulus, 136 BCE, and C. Renius, 138 BCE ancient forgery, 3.18 gm Obv: Roma helmeted head right, * below chin, GRAG behind Rev: Juno Caprotina in a biga of goats, C・RENI below, ROMA in exergue Ref: Obverse S.115, Cr.238/1, Syd.451, RSC Antestia 9; Reverse S.108, Cr.231/1, Syd.432, RSc Renia 1 https://www.cointalk.com/threads/mule-or-goat-both-gragulus-renius-fourée-denarius.270214/ Instead of a pseudoscholarly post I wrote a short fictional story about the coin The next coin is serrate. If, as some have speculated, serrate coins were made that way to deter forgers, it failed! In recent times someone filed between serrations, presumably to take a look at the core (even though the core was likely already exposed in other places. Pretty cool, actually! I'm glad someone else did it because while I have no problem owning the coin with that modern damage and enjoyed the peek inside, I'd have trouble taking a file to it myself! Roman Republic, Lucius Aurelius Cotta 105 BCE Fourree AR serrate denarius, 20 mm, 3.8 gm Obv: draped bust of Vulcan right, wearing laureate pileus; tongs and star behind; all within wreath and dotted border Rev: eagle standing on thunderbolt, head left; L·COT below, V to right; all within laurel wreath and dotted border Ref: c.f. Crawford 314/1c; Sydenham 577a; Aurelia 21b formerly slabbed, NGC ChVF, 5/5 strike, 3/5 surface Note that NGC slabbed a fake! OMG! Just joking-- it's an ancient forgery so it was fair game. Duly removed from the plastic prison, of course
REPUBLICAN FOURREES: RR fourée mule anon Q Fabius Labeo denarius 18mm 2.9g after 124 BC Roma X Jupiter Quadriga tbolt scepter Cr 159 obv Cr 273-1 rev Ex: @John Anthony - the Fakemaster himself! This one is a conundrum... write ups call it an AE Victoriatus (they are SUPPOSED to be silver), or a Fouree made from actual minting dies. I sometimes feel it was a way the Roman's stiffed those "Allies" that went over to Hannibal during the 2nd Punic War... "Want your payment? HERE is your Victoriatus...spend THAT!" RR Anon AE Victoriatus after 218 BCE Rome mint Ex RBW Anon Jupiter Victory crowning trophy Craw 44-1 Syd 83 Sear 49 Fouree Ex: Some Guy off the Street that also sold me a ROLEX for $50HKD
Can anyone provide a link to a modern fake of an ancient coin fourree? I have never seen one. There is, IMO, a difference between a fake made in the last 500 years to fool collectors of ancient coins and copies of ancient coins made in ancient times intended to circulate side by side with or in place of official coins. Not all collectors of ancient coins have any interest in counterfeits made in ancient times but we should not call such coins 'fakes'. If a coin was made to spend, I can collect it. If it was made to cheat modern collectors, with a few exceptions, I do not.
FOUREES of the ROMAN EMPIRE: RI Julia Domna 194-217 Fouree AR Plated Den Isis Horus RI Fouree Denarius Severus Alexander with Annona Avg reverse VERY EARLY FOUREE of an ACHAEMENID SIGLOS: Persia Achaemenid Empire 4th C BCE FOURREE 15mm Siglos Persian hero-king in running incuse I do not collect Fourrees... however this crap just keeps creepin' into my collection!
Here's mine, a wanted a fouree and I wanted a denarius of this type...so in my book that counts as a double score! Roman Republic, Fourée Denarius imitating L. Thorius Balbus. 2.8g, 19mm, 3h; after 105 BC. Obv.: Head right of Juno Sospita, wearing goat-skin headdress; I. S. M. R. behind. Rev.: L.THORIVS // BALBVS; Bull charging right; S above. Reference: cf. Sear 192; Thoria 1; Cr. 316/1; Syd. 598. From the Doug Smith Collection #387
TITUS Fouree Denarius OBVERSE: CAES VESPAS AVG TR P COS III, Laureate head right REVERSE: Foreparts of two capricorns springing in opposing directions, supporting round shield inscribed S C; globe below Struck at Rome, 80/1AD 3.06g, 18mm RIC II 357 (Titus); RSC 497
I wonder who the earliest ancient collectors were. Is it possible that there is a fouree Athenian tetradrachm out there that was made to fool collectors from Imperial Roman times?
There is record that Caesar Augustus collected Greek coins and gave them as gifts. There were supposedly rich Romans that bought fourree denarii but I wonder if that was more to prop up faith in the economy. I recall reading of a hoard of coins where every coin was different. Was it a collection?
Nearly every coin was different in the Asyut hoard. It could have been a collection. It could also be the souvenir of a tour. Or a teaching aid for money changers.
I think every collection of ancients should have a fouree or two included, ancient of course, unless like Dougsmit said, there's something special about it. I have 2 Augustus ones meself
The only fourree in my collection (at least that I'm aware of being a fourree) is a Marcus Antonius denarius Marcus Antonius, Fourree denarius Minted in Athens in 32 BC ANTON AVG IMP III COS DES III III V R P C, bare head of Marcus Antonius right ANTONINVS / AVG IMP III in two lines 3,52 gr Ref : RCV # 1478, HCRI # 347, RSC # 2, Cohen # 2 Q
Nice fourrees everyone. I recently picked up a couple of RR fourrees. Pretty ugly. Here is one of them, which appears to be nothing but core (Volteia biga of snakes):
Sorry to revive this old thread, but I came across something else I found very interesting. While browsing the catalogue for Nomos' upcoming auction, I came across this fouree of the same coin as mine. It appears to me to be a reverse die match to mine, if that terminology still applies for fourees. That would no doubt mean it is the work of the same forger.
@SeptimusT, looking at your coin again, are you sure it's a fourree? Could it be an extremely crystalized and brittle denarius (hence the chipping and flaking), darkly toned? The more I look at it, the more I think it is not a fourree.
@TIF, it's definitely a fouree, I think. I checked just now and a slight poke at the exposed areas on the edge reveals green material beneath. The brownish appearance is just dirt.
