Do TPGs have a minimum time for "natural" toning to occur? The real-world test is what are the most recent date coins with prominent toning that have been slabbed with a numerical grade. Cal
Toning doesn't actually take that long in certain environments. I don't know that anyone has studied exactly how long, but I've recent Prez-bucks slabbed with toning.
This. There’s no set time and the different compositions tone differently, even coins of the same composition tone in different amounts of time. I’ve had coins tone heavily in a few weeks and others do nothing in a few years and they’ve both sat on the same desk
OK. So if toning can occur "naturally" in a few weeks, shouldn't it be possible to set-up the conditions to cause any coin of the same composition to tone that quickly, or is there some varying characteristic among individual coins that would cause them to tone at different rates in the same environment? Cal
Regardless of what the chemistry says in practice there’s definitely varying characteristics that impact how quickly and how a coin will tone. You can take the same type of coin and put it in the same environment and come out with very different results
Yes. But be aware, toning, on all coins, begins the instant after a coin is struck. How fast it occurs depends upon all of the variables involved. And there are hundreds if not thousands of variables. And again yes. Each and every coin is unique so they cannot be expected to tone in exactly the same way or at exactly the same speed - even when they are stored side by side under exactly the same conditions.
Some types of toning occur slowly over longer periods at a slower rate. That's where you get the nice reds, greens and sky blues that are most desired.
Yes, some does. Just not all of it. Yes, but those same colors can be induced in a matter of hours by somebody who knows what they are doing. And there is absolutely nobody who can tell that it isn't 100% natural toning.
I've seen some great AT, but I've never seen anyone that can do the emerald green with the ruby reds in it when you rotate the coin.
I'd be willing to bet that you have seen such coins, you just assumed it was natural toning. But that's the thing, because it is impossible to distinguish AT from NT, everybody assumes that. Except the guy who made the coins.
I'd phrase it differently, I'd say when nobody can tell it doesn't matter. Ya see, the TPGs freely admit they cannot tell AT from NT, and they always have. They know they are no different than anybody else.
Be careful, Doug, your Bias is showing. The TPGs cautiously admit that some AT is impossible to detect. The vast majority, however, they catch. And they are significantly better at it than many other people.
Sounds to me like you are the one with the bias. If they can detect AT and recognize it as easily as you claim, then why is it they call toning "questionable" instead of calling it what it is ? By definition, when they say questionable, they are saying we don't know if it is or isn't, but we don't like it so we think it might be AT. And then of course there's all those coins that are known by their submitter to be NT (because of the specific circumstances) that the TPG labeled as questionable, and all those coins that were obviously AT, and capable of being recognized as AT by a 6 yr old, and yet cleanly graded and slabbed by the TPGs. All of those things combined tell me that your confidence in them is misplaced. In other words, that you are the one with the bias - not me.
Hmm, looks like the NT/AT discussion has progressed slightly in recent years. At least more are accepting, in some cases, that one can't tell the difference between NT/AT. Maybe we'll eventually return to what really matters, EYE APPEAL.
