Duty to warn?

I noticed the following eBay auction of a 1972 DDO Lincoln cent.
1972 Double Die Obverse NGC MS-65 Red, Getting Rare !!

According to the information I have, the coin is worth considerably less than the current bid and it appears that bidders are under the impression that the coin is a Die 1, which would be worth about 10 times as much.

Although nothing in the listing says so, (except the Fivaz/Stanton variety number listed on the slab) this coin is a Die 3, (CONECA: 3-O-I, Crawford: CDDO-003, Wexler: WDDO-003, FS#: 1c-033.53).

Should the bidders be warned, or is this just caveat emptor?

 

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If you want to get kicked off eBay, go ahead. The user agreement states

Notice the last rule. That is just what you will be doing. See also the last post in "Wow! WHAT A BARGAIN!"

 

There's certainly a history of that sort of thing by CT members; even bidding up listings to prevent naive buyers from getting them. What do you think of the merits of my concern about this listing. It's not fraudulent; just misleading. I think if the coin is anything other than Die 1 it should say so in the listing.

 

I think in a perfect world, the seller would list all the possible specifics of the item... in this case making a point to list the specific die variety. But, he does list whats on the slab and makes no effort to hide it. At some point its the buyers job to do their homework.

 

I think you're right, but someone may end up being pretty disappointed, especially if the bidding goes higher.

 

dreamer,

You could bid up the price on the coin and then not pay! However, you would have to do the same for about a third of every 1972 DDO and 1955 DDO that gets listed on eBay every week. Once you rack up (I think) three "Non Paying Bidder" Alerts or Notices, I think eBay will boot you off! As hard as it is to see some unsuspecting, unknowing Collector get taken, you can't always help and definitely can't help them all.

The truth of the matter is, that eBay needs to step up and require the Seller to add the Variety or Die Number to the listing when it is known!


Frank

 

Maybe they'll get there eventually, like they did with listing grades in titles. I'm surprised that NGC and PCGS don't add that information to the variety name on their slabs. NGC just says "DDO". PCGS doesn't even specify the die type. A 1955 DDO just says "Doubled Die Obverse" even though there are several die varieties. There seems to be a convention that if the information is omitted from the slab it means Die 1; otherwise it's Die 2. However, ANACS lists Die 1 in the title.

Of course if the FS# is listed, it's clear, but I'm not sure how many buyers would even know to look at that information.

-The 3rd Frank

 

The seller listed the coin as required on Ebay and shows both the observse and reverse as required by ebay. As NGC did not note that on the slab I would assume it is not anything other than DDO.

 

Very strange. The bid was $75 when I started this thread. Now it's $51.

 

The seller did underline the '001' at the end of the serial number, probably trying to imply it is a die type.

 

A bidder retracted a $375.00 bid.

 

I hadn't noticed that.
I wonder if that bidder reads CoinTalk.

 

One would hope that the last entry in the seller Feedback would be enough to warn potential buyers.

LIAR,CHEAT NEVER SENT ITEM TO ME, DOESNT CARE I LOST $1125.19 TO THIS CROOK stoneybml83 ( 509) Jul-07-07 15:10
Reply by mr.billyb (Jul-10-07 05:10):
SENT 5/29, PO RECEIPT, DID NOT INSURE,NOW IT'S MY FAULT FOR HIS MISTAKE?? OK ODA
Follow-up by stoneybml83 (Jul-10-07 18:29):
DID NOT SEND ITEM, RECEIPT FOR PACKAGE TOO HEAVY,LIAR, CROOK, DO NOT TRUST ATALL

-- (#190106831497)

 

Not to mention this one....

Refused refund after coin returned. Bid $491 on NGC Cert 72DDO coin worth $20. werhamro ( 49) Apr-24-07 21:40
Reply by mr.billyb (Apr-26-07 16:24):
Offered Refund,He Refused, Lose $491,Than $49?See Ret Policy,My Fault /Mistake?

-- (#190099335543)

 

The sad ending

Final bid $198.49.

It would be interesting to be there when the buyer finds out what he's bought and realizes that he paid about 6 times what it's worth.

 

Earlier in the discussion when the price was around $50 I didn't think that was unreasonable since after all that's about what Ken Potter is asking for a die 3 DDO in MS-65RD, but now that it's $200 that's another story. Especially since according to the seller's feedback he's pulled this deception more than once; really unforgivable not to explicitly mention that he's not selling the same coin that's listed in the red book.

 

I agree that $50 is reasonable. However, when I started the thread, the bidding was $80, which, as it turned out, was due to a $350 bid that was later retracted. At first, I wasn't sure about bad intent, but having seen the other feedback, I agree, this guy is a repeat offender.

Perhaps a safe way to warn buyers without violating eBay rules is just to ask a question. The questions and answers get posted with the listing.

 

They did not ask for our opinions, so no duty.

I have warned people in the past about fakes, and have never received a thank you, or even a reply.

 

Better they learn this lesson from a $200 closing price on a minor die type of a 1972 DDO than several thousand for a 1955 DDO.

 

It just points out the danger of buying and selling coins on Ebay unless you are very very confident of your numismatic skills. If the transaction had occurred in person, the potential buyer could have asked questions and based the purchase decision on the response and the integrity/reputation of the dealer/seller. A lot of people try to collect beyond their skill level and get burned.