Come on guys - I can see all of liberty and the lower head band. Here is a link to my favorite guide by rick snow.
I would agree that if you use Snow's guide the coin qualifies as VF20. But if you use the ANA guide the best it can do is F15.
Well - even using the ANA Guide I still see VF. Headdress shows considerable flatness. Nearly half the details still show in the hair(and I bet liberty is bolder also) and on ribbon ( I still see a slight separatio from the ribbon and hair). Head is slightly worn, but bold. Balance of hair is distinct(I can make out details above and below the hairline). Shoulder is quite flat. Reverse: Leaves and bow are almost fully detailed. I can see that on the reverse. And with this coin being a nice brown I betcha it looks better in person. Then again maybe this is a case of market grading versus technical grading. LOL - couldn't resist. And if this was a key date it would probably grade VF30 by the tpg's.
Kinda curious how Mark - ANA VF20 - obverse Headdress shows considerable flatness. Nearly half the details still show in the hair and on ribbon. Head is slightly worn but bold. Balance of hair is distinct. Shoulder is quite flat. reverse Leaves and bow are almost fully detailed. There is no where near half the details still showing in the hair and there are no details on the ribbon at all. As for the reverse, there are no details in the bow and almost all the leaves are flat. In all honesty, do you disagree ?
In all honesty - yes I do. Part of what makes this fun. You see I can see the details of liberty across the headband, I can see three diamonds - not bold but I can see them(and that according to the snow book is always a weak area). The first three feathers I see half of the details - the rest of the feathers I can see more than half of the details. I can still see the ribbon separted from the hair. The worst part about it is I could say I have seen some PCGS, NGC, ANACs VF coins that look like this, but that doesn't make them correct. The worst ones are the key dates. As for the reverse of the coin I think I see enough in the leaves and the bow to say they look almost fully detailed. To me if there is a weakness on the coin for the reverse it is the bow, being slightly flat on the left - but not enough to drop it in my opinion. Next weakness is the hair on the forehead - again a little flat, but I still think I see enough details to qualify as a VF. At this point I wish I had something like photoshop to draw in the details I see. Hey coinlover - you have the coin in hand - what do you think it is?
Thanks - I think so also, but that might not make us right. I wish I could find something like this at one of the flea markets.
I just got my first Indian head cent since I was a kid. I had forgotten how light they are in comparison to the Lincoln. Mine looks a lot like yours which I think is a VF 15
