FBI Raid seizes Liberty Dollars

I think they are nut cases, but I'm not at all clear why what they did was illegal. If selling Liberty Dollars is illegal, then why isn't Chuck-E-Cheese indicted for selling tokens that can be exchanged for merchandise?

I'd really like to understand the case against them.

 

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You know the old saying - "Don't screw with Mother Nature and you won't get burned"! Well, in this case, remove "Mother Nature" and replace it with "Uncle Sam".

Seriously, I think that NORFED, Liberty Dollars or whatever they call themselves these day, are a bunch of loco weeds! They want to and have been trying to subvert the Federal Reserve system for years. I have had some of the Liberty Dollars that my daughter took in for gas at her work and since she had to pay for the gas, good old Dad had to bail her out. I had a very hard time getting rid of them and had to take a big loss on them when I did!


Frank

 

I believe that what NORFED was trying to do was completely legal and, even, amiable. At least the spirit of it, at least. Though actual practice probably differs greatly, there is NOTHING wrong with a concerned group of citizens attempting to influence the monetary policy of a country. (Remember the free silver movement?) I, for one, think that the US should go back on some sort of standard, or, at the very least, print less money.

I was meaning to get one of these Liberty dollars, strictly as a novelty. That'll probably be more difficult/costly now.

 

As was I. I had an existing order which I doubt will ever be filled... Would've been nice if they were -- the prices for the RP Dollars have skyrocketed.

 

Is it any worse than Easy Allan Greenspan or Hellicopter Ben Bernanke "creating" 37 billion US Dollars and "injecting" them into the financial system.

Let me break down what those terms really mean.. It means they counterfieted 37 billion dollars in ONE DAY ALONE. And this act takes any money you have in savings and dilutes it by said amount (INFLATION!!) This ponzi scheme has been going on for quite a while.

Gold, Silver and coins. It's the only way! But you just can't make them yourself as currency.

As one person put it:

"Libertarians need to study Nechayev, Lenin and Hitler. Goodness and light from their religious belief does not rise to being able to defy the state. You pervert the state from within to replace it with your state. Just what the Neocon's are trying to do. Righteous indignation flaunted gets you shot." Jeromie

 

I can see it already.........SGS gets their paws on this stuff..........."70PPQ Liberty Dollar".

 

Politics aside, I still thought they were pretty neat looking "coins." I still would like to get my hands on one example each of their copper $1, and silver $5, $10, and $20 rounds.

 

You have a chance (well, assuming the FBI doesn't get to it first!):
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-NORFED-1-A...ryZ39484QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-NORFED-1-A...ryZ39484QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

(And there's more where that came from... check seller's other items)

[I am very obviously not affiliated with this seller or these auctions, in no way, shape or form!]

 

again, I have to stress...they have no higher purpose than to make money...your fiat money...they are not trying to effect the monetary system. That is just a rue for you to buy a token.

If the US DID go back to precious metals in their coinage that could only HURT the sales of liberty dollars thus they do not want that to happen...

Again...I do not think the business model is as much illegal as it is dishonest...playing on the fears people have of fiat money to make a little fiat money...completely flawed of corse since you are expexted to BUY these 'dollars' WITH fiat money and then you are expected (in bizarro land) to try to spend them...when you could have just spent your fiat money...like the makers of the Liberty Dollars spend YOUR fiat money you send them to buy these tokens...

As a Token they are okay looking...but I just dont want to send money to, and support, people who IMO are deceptive in their stated purpose...

Certainly they have walked the line in their advice for people to attempt to use these as alternative currency...but lets be honest...in the end they dont care what you do with them...they got your money when you bought one and their only hope now if that silver prices go up so they can charge you to re-mint your coins...

 

This isn't good. These collectable Liberty Dollars first and then our collections and privately held precious metal. Shades of the 1933 Roosevelt (D) Gold Confiscation Order will be upon us in a few years I'm afraid...

Book It, 16 Nov 07

 

Can someone who opposes fiat money and supports Norfed please explain to me why a one ounce coin made of pure copper (worth 20 cents on today's metals market) is any different than fiat money? Sure it's worth more than paper, but not much more than a Sacagawea or Presidential $1 coin.

Similarly, the 1/20 oz. silver "$1" coins are worth about 72 cents.

What am I missing here?

 

Back when there was still silver content in the coins, this was done to keep the intrinsic value of the coins from exceeding the face value, because people would melt them down and deplete the monetary supply.

 

I dont think people will be spending pre 1933 gold anytime soon.

 

I dont think it will lead to confiscation of privately held precious metals in general...thats just wild speculation with no basis in reality. Norscam is a much different issue than private citizens who collect and invest in precious metals. If there is even close to a move in that direction...you will hear me screaming and see me with my shovel running into the woods No tears for norscam...although I find them distasteful and dishonest...I do withhold my judgment of guilt. This does not set any precedence that shows it will lead to the outlawing of ownership of precious metals...and if found innocent I am sure they can get their metals back...hope it doesnt effect their money making venture of playing on peoples fears to sell a silver token for fiat money which they seem less opposed to as their propaganda suggests. I guess they just object to all that fiat money not being in their bank accounts

 

If the intrinsic value of the coin is less than its monetary value, then it's fiat currency and it doesn't matter whether it's made of platinum or plastic.
Even if the content of a coin is carefully calculated to be less than the face value, it could easily exceed the face value if the price of the precious metal skyrockets. Then what?

 

then you send it back and for a small fee they will remint the coin for you.

 

What would that accomplish and why would you pay them a fee to do it?

 

That's not the scam, governments had been doing that for centuries. Besides, is it worse to have a dollar that is worth (at least) 75 cents in silver, or a dollar thats worth .00000001 cents in paper? The scam is that they're selling people "dollars" they can't spend. Like I said, I agree with the spirit of what they're doing, but not the act.

 

It's worth what you can spend it for whether it's made of silver, paper or cow dung. What's the value of a deposit slip from your bank? That's also made of paper. Are you going to keep the silver coins under your mattress?

 

Dreamer, we're obviously on different sides of the fence here. Truce? :smile