FBI Raid seizes Liberty Dollars

I found this on CoinFlation, and I thought it would be best to pass it on. The letter was sent to all the customers whose orders were pending.

There was a lawsuit between the creator of the Liberty dollar and the FBI, and the court declared Liberty dollars legal. Nevertheless, the FBI has decided the forcibly remove all the Liberty dollars, the paper Liberty dollars, the Ron Paul coins, and even the gold, silver and platinum stores.

Does anyone think this is entirely unconstitutional?

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people's hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.

I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.

Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don't let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal's to return America to a value based currency.

Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.

Bernard von NotHaus

Monetary Architect

 

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EDIT: I'll save those comments for the politic forum

 

They were selling their money based on silver and gold prices so essentially they are selling precious metals as in indirect investment. Someone called me 2 years ago to start buying this stuff and I am amazed it took this long to shut them down. Its about time.

 

I haven't read into it too deeply at this point.

I'm sure this will be a VERY interesting topic here though.

I have to wonder about confiscating all of the bullion though. Now that's a ton of money which I will assume was legally obtained. Cease and desist may have been a better avenue.

I know all of the Ron Paul supporters will be all over this one and I will ask has anyone found any of the Ron Paul (or other pieces) in circulation? Hell, I don't even see Presidential dollars that ARE issued by the mint!

Tons or "foreign" money circulated in our early days because trade was trade and there wasn't enough to go around. Hard times tokens were used as money and Dr. Lewis Feuchtwanger minted his OWN one and three cent pieces which actually DID circulate. I know as I have two one cent examples and they are NOT uncs.

Of course that was 1837 and this is 2007. Do the Feds really feel that threatened?

 

Man, took them long enough honestly. Was only a matter of time in my opinion. Only other thing I have to say is: Good Riddance.

Phoenix

 

what did they do that was actually illegal?

 

Exactly. I'm not saying I support their form of monetary-anarchy, but nothing they did was illegal. The money they make is basically glorified play money. What they did was protected by the constitution, because they never said that their 'money' was backed by the government in any way, shape or form.

 

EDIT: I'll save those comments for the politic forum

 

I disagree with Doug on thsi one, i do think the FBI confiscating anything crossed a line. This based on what we know at this point. If however, some information comes to light in the coming weeks of actions taken by the Liberty Dollar company that preceded this raid not including the release of the liberty dollar in all its forms. Basicaly, there might be more to this seizure then we are privy to.

 

According to one Secret Service agent the Liberty Dollar "appears to be in violation of Title 18, Section 514 of the United States Code." That section states that

"Whoever, with the intent to defraud— (1) draws, prints, processes, produces, publishes, or otherwise makes, or attempts or causes the same, within the United States;
(2) passes, utters, presents, offers, brokers, issues, sells, or attempts or causes the same, or with like intent possesses, within the United States; or
(3) utilizes interstate or foreign commerce, including the use of the mails or wire, radio, or other electronic communication, to transmit, transport, ship, move, transfer, or attempts or causes the same, to, from, or through the United States,
any false or fictitious instrument, document, or other item appearing, representing, purporting, or contriving through scheme or artifice, to be an actual security or other financial instrument issued under the authority of the United States, a foreign government, a State or other political subdivision of the United States, or an organization, shall be guilty of a class B felony."

I acknowledge that there is room for interpretation in whether Norfed had "intent to defraud". However, in my view they are a dangerous group:

A Washington Post article states that Norfed (now known simply as "Liberty Dollars") has connections with right-wing hate groups and some users of Liberty dollars, apparently not getting the message that they are not legal tender, have demanded that merchants accept them.

I'm not a lawyer, but I do know that the constitution says only that "Congress shall have the authority ..........To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States."
Therefore, a law passed by Congress restricting the ability of private citizens to make their own money should not be unconstitutional.

 

The reason for the raid and seziure, as listed on the warrant, is not a violation of Title 18, Section 514. The listed violation is of Title 18 Sections 1956, 1957, 1341, and 1343. In other words, money laundering, mail fraud, and wire fraud. Those are the government's allegations, anyway. It remains to be seen if they will be proven in court.

 

Isn't there also a law that we are only allowed to use US Dollars to buy or sell things in the USA? Why can't we pay for our gas with Euros?

 

WOW! BORROW DOLLARS!!!! Everyone is going to dump their dollars....you will be able to pay off your debts easily!!! If China took their 1.4trillion cash in dollars and tradded it for Euros....and all of OPEC demanded to be paid in Euros.....and unions & people refused to work for dollars only Euros.....what would happen??? The US Government has to outlaw any form of money being used to pay debts or buy stuff except Dollars.

 

Yes they do. And for those who are outside the reach of US law, they will start wars with those who do not deal in US Petro-dollars. Certain sections of the US Government make the mafia look like a crew of altar boys.

If one understands the fiat dollar system, they will find that coins or bullion is a far better deal than the cheap, IOU, fiat, Federal Reserve Note!

So collect coins, bullion and last of all, wait a few months and you can pay off your debts in inflated dollars! Just think, as fast as the dollar is falling, in a few months you will be able to, with a wheelbarrel of cash, either buy a loaf of bread or pay off your expensive mortgage!

 

the sky is falling!!! Liberty Dollars are a joke...They take your money and send you a silver round...thats fine and good...in business to sell silver over melt value...not a problem. The problem is their stated purpose...its to make money but they project themselves as trying to do something noble like trying to get people on a silver standard...

If you buy the paper money, you are a fool...if you buy the silver rounds...at least you have a bit of silver and a novelty coin...otherwise...its a money making venture...

They have a list of a minute amount of people who would take these as payment and urge you to try to get others to accept it...they take silver and put a US dollar price to it pretty much defeating the purpose of going around the US fiat system...and if silver goes up past the denomination?

Well they have a solution to that!! For a small fee you can send back the silver you have and have it reminted....at a small fee of course The worthless novelty bills value will go up!! So you can have a bill no one will accept as payment that is worth its weight in silver

As for the legality of what they are doing...I wouldnt comment...but all they are in reality are sellers of fantasy tokens and bit better than a pyramid scheme.

Dont like the fiat system? It seems the makers of the Liberty Dollar dont have any problem taking your fiat money, that is legal tender in the US, that can be used to buy a new house...in exchange for a silver token that cant If I offer them some of my bad old fiat money for a coin...they will happily take it The liberty dollar is not going to be the solution to fiat money...and they know it...its a business venture plain and simple...its just a company trying to make money playing on sentiments like the one above, no comment on the political ranting...not the place for bashing nations. Its painfully obvious why a business doesnt want to accept pounds and francs and any other currency people happen to have... and only want to deal in one monetary system...and its painfully obvious why the government...ANY government would not want a business minting coins to be used as alternative forms of currency...If a company WANTS to and doesnt mind constantly keeping up to date with the exchange rate each day in case someone wanders in with pounds...I am sure they are free to do so....

 

Could you provide a link to the actual warrant? I know it was available somewhere, but I can't find it.

 

As usual lately, guilty until proven innocent.
Sad but true.

 

Ah, this is the nut. This implies that while what they are doing is strictly legal, the gov't has painted a bullseye on their backs and is out to destroy them. The easiest way to do this is to charge them with a list of crimes like those they used, use this as a basis to confiscate everything they have of value, freeze their accounts and generally make it impossible for them to do business in any way shape or form.

Now the burden is on Liberty Mint to go to court, prove their innocence, petition the court to get their stuff back and wait years and years for the FBI to comply with the court order. By the time they get their stuff back, most of the principals will be long dead.

End of story.

rono

 

Search warrant:

http://www.libertydollar.org/legal/pdf/search_warrent_20071114.pdf

Seizure Warrant:

http://www.libertydollar.org/legal/pdf/seizure_warrent_20071114.pdf

While I'm no lawyer, and I don't play on on TV, I'm not completely convinced that what they are doing is illegal, but only just barely. They certainly are walking a very fine line, and as an ordinary person, I really don't know which side of the line they are on. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Does this mean that anyone who possesses a Liberty dollar could be in jeopardy? Or only those who try to pass it off as a form of barter?