What is your oldest coin graded MS69?

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by mrbreeze, Dec 27, 2017.

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  1. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Beautifull.....I could have never sold it/ just too nice!
     
    panzerman, Dec 28, 2017
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  3. asheland

    asheland The Silver Lion

    For me, a 1986 silver eagle.
     
    asheland, Dec 28, 2017
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  4. asheland

    asheland The Silver Lion

    (Don't have a pic, but a pre-prong era NGC holder)
     
    asheland, Dec 28, 2017
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  5. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    same here...nothing prior to 1986 S Eagle.
     
    chascat, Dec 28, 2017
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  6. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    This is an interesting question. The only set I have with 69s are proof restrikes, the oldest of which was struck in 1967 (PF69 UCAM).

    I did a quick search through my primary type set (Hungary 1848-1956), but I thought it would be interesting to look at this data by planchet composition:

    For Aluminum, there was no significant correlation between age and grade. At the date in the collection where aluminum appeared as a coining metal (1946), it was just as likely to be any grade in the MS65-67 range. The same went for Aluminum-Bronze. This is not surprising as these are both relatively modern and light coining metals, so bag marks would be limited.

    All copper-nickel fell within the MS65-67 range with the oldest MS67 from 1950. The oldest bronze and oldest nickel examples in the MS65+/66 grades were all in the 1890-1910 date range, which is when both bronze and nickel coins started appearing in the type set as well. No iron, steel, or zinc examples exceeded MS64.

    No copper examples exceeded MS65; the oldest was 1848 (the first year of the type set). Similarly, no gold examples exceeded MS65, with the oldest from 1887. I did not find silver graded MS66 before 1915, before 1892 for MS65+, or before 1868 for MS65, however, those grades were all represented heavily after those dates.
     
    Jaelus, Dec 28, 2017
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  7. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Whats the difference MS. PR69
     
    Cheech9712, Dec 28, 2017
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  8. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    The term MS= mint state uncirculated, these are graded from MS-60-70
    PR= Proof coins, these are graded from PR60-70
     
    panzerman, Dec 28, 2017
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  9. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Is ms a circulated coin
     
    Cheech9712, Dec 28, 2017
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  10. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Oh. a ms is a mint set coin kinda
     
    Cheech9712, Dec 28, 2017
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  11. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Sorry im confused
     
    Cheech9712, Dec 28, 2017
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  12. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Panzerman. Is mint state a circulated coin that really didnt see any circulation. Like a perfect mint set coin.
     
    Cheech9712, Dec 28, 2017
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  13. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Depends on which sytem you trust. The US Sheldon one list MS=UNCIRCULATED
    However, if you compare a MS-62 to a MS-66 US Liberty Double Eagle, the 62 shows wear/ should not be listed MS.
    In UK/ Europe their FDC/Mintstate/SC/Stempelglanz would be US standard MS-66+
    CNG in Dr. Larry Adams Auction, had most of his coins graded at EF/ Ch-EF/ EF-Supberb.....hardly any FDC ex. Heritage ended up with Adams coins that were EF slabbed as MS-65/64. In the UK, a "mintstate" coin has to be perfect to be MS. I would agree with Europen/ UK standards:)
     
    panzerman, Dec 28, 2017
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  14. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Depends on which sytem you trust. The US Sheldon one list MS=UNCIRCULATED
    However, if you compare a MS-62 to a MS-66 US Liberty Double Eagle, the 62 shows wear/ should not be listed MS.
    In UK/ Europe their FDC/Mintstate/SC/Stempelglanz would be US standard MS-66+
    CNG in Dr. Larry Adams Auction, had most of his coins graded at EF/ Ch-EF/ EF-Supberb.....hardly any FDC ex. Heritage ended up with Adams coins that were EF slabbed as MS-65/64. In the UK, a "mintstate" coin has to be perfect to be MS. I would agree with Europen/ UK standards:)
     
    panzerman, Dec 28, 2017
    #33 + Quote Reply
    H8_modern likes this.
  15. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Depends on which sytem you trust. The US Sheldon one list MS=UNCIRCULATED
    However, if you compare a MS-62 to a MS-66 US Liberty Double Eagle, the 62 shows wear/ should not be listed MS.
    In UK/ Europe their FDC/Mintstate/SC/Stempelglanz would be US standard MS-66+
    CNG in Dr. Larry Adams Auction, had most of his coins graded at EF/ Ch-EF/ EF-Supberb.....hardly any FDC ex. Heritage ended up with Adams coins that were EF slabbed as MS-65/64. In the UK, a "mintstate" coin has to be perfect to be MS. I would agree with Europen/ UK standards:)
     
    panzerman, Dec 28, 2017
    #33 + Quote Reply
  16. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Depends on which sytem you trust. The US Sheldon one list MS=UNCIRCULATED
    However, if you compare a MS-62 to a MS-66 US Liberty Double Eagle, the 62 shows wear/ should not be listed MS.
    In UK/ Europe their FDC/Mintstate/SC/Stempelglanz would be US standard MS-66+
    CNG in Dr. Larry Adams Auction, had most of his coins graded at EF/ Ch-EF/ EF-Supberb.....hardly any FDC ex. Heritage ended up with Adams coins that were EF slabbed as MS-65/64. In the UK, a "mintstate" coin has to be perfect to be MS. I would agree with Europen/ UK standards:)
     
    panzerman, Dec 28, 2017
    #34 + Quote Reply
  17. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Thanks
     
    Cheech9712, Dec 28, 2017
    #35 + Quote Reply
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  18. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    You are welcome:happy:
     
    panzerman, Dec 28, 2017
    #36 + Quote Reply
  19. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Good point.
     
    Santinidollar, Dec 28, 2017
    #37 + Quote Reply
  20. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    "MS" stands for Mint State. This is for business strike coins; in other words, coins that were made to be used in circulation, with no special care taken by the mint in creating them.

    "PR" stands for Proof. "Proof" is not really a grade; it is a method of manufacture. A proof coin is specially made as a presentation piece or for collectors. It is struck on a polished blank, with greater pressure, and is made to much higher quality standards than a business strike. Since Proof coins are inherently nicer by their very nature, a high grade like PR68 or PR69 and such is not uncommon.

    But on a business strike coin, the higher Mint State grades (MS67, -68, -69, etc) are much less common and even rare in some cases, since these coins were not made with any special care, and were just intended to go into circulation.

    No, not really. Since "MS" means "Mint State", it implies that it is a (business strike) coin that has remained in the same condition as it was when it left the mint. This typically means no wear from circulation. However, the coin might in fact have actually circulated, but not enough to cause any wear. A Mint State coin can have some contact marks, but no wear.

    This is the problem with the older (and slightly confusing) "Uncirculated" terminology, and the reason (I think) that the modern grading services adopted the "Mint State" term instead. You see, you can pull a Mint State coin out of circulation, if you get to it before it's had any wear.

    Does any of that make sense?
     
    lordmarcovan, Dec 29, 2017
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  21. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    I get it now. You explained that well. Thankyou
     
    Cheech9712, Dec 30, 2017
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  22. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    My only 69 is this common widget, 69PL. JPA863 obverse.jpg JPA863 reverse.jpg
     
    physics-fan3.14, Jan 5, 2018
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