Is this 1865 2 cent piece just machine doubled?

Just checking to make sure. UNITED and the lower ribbon looks really cool with the doubling.

 

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The "stalk" ends in particular appear noticeably thinner and suggest machine doubling to my eye.

 

Especially the left one. But some of the letters in UNITED have pretty dynamic doubling. Less shelf-like, which led to my confusion.

 

I see what you mean and missed it the first time. You know these can be tough compared to other types due to the sharpness and style of the letting (think some of the DDO FE cents), but the U in particular also appears thinner than expected, at least to my eye.

I wouldn't bet my life on it, and certainly wouldn't want you to price according to my conclusion, but if in your shoes I would offer it as MD.

 

I agree. Its actually in my "free" dansco 7070 set, not for sale, but that whole set will be for sale next fall when I have to pay for the family vacation, haha. Then I'll start another one.

 

I've never understood how anyone could actually collect coins, by which I mean keep them for years or decades without growing bored. Hell, when I first took an interest, a few days was enough for me.

On the bright side, at least you get to own many more than the average collector, and in the long run will greatly contribute to your knowledge as a whole. Win-win in my eyes...

 

I spent a decade when I was a kid trading the same coins back and forth with my local coin dealer. He was patient, kind, and fair. I'd come in one week and buy a Walking Liberty Half, take it back the next week and trade it for a Franklin and a wheat cent. Go back a week later with lawn mowing money and "upgrade" again. He always took back the coins in trade for exactly what I had in them. Good man. Passed away earlier this year.

 

Well we just will call in the best man on duces..... @PennyGuy
Bill knows the 2 cent piece inside and out.....

 

The doubling I see is most likely the result of work done on the Die. We see these effects a good bit. I’d recommend Kevin Flynn’s book, “The Authorative Reference On Two Cents Coins”. The author catalogs the exact doubling on the OP’s coin.

Oh yea, the inside of a two cent piece is bronze.......

 

Thanks for the in put Bill best wishes for a happy holiday season to you and yours.
Paddy

 

Thanks Paddy, all the best of the season to your family as well. Daughter drives to Michigan tomorrow.

 

Shouldn't that whole perimeter off the rim be offset were it rotated-hub doubling? Yet only that lower perimeter is offset. Shouldn't it look like something like this doubling? This is a Yugoslavian coin...

 

If the OP coin was a true doubled die that would be true, but these two cent pieces resulted from work done on the die lettering. Sometimes this result is revered to as Longacre doubling because Longacre was the engraver at the Mint during this time. I think the doubling is a result of the Mint trying to extend die life. After lapping the die the lettering was touched up to maintain well struck lettering.

 

Gods speed and a safe trip from SP up and back. I'm sure this Christmas will be full of magic with the new grand baby. Hopefully you and I can get that lunch in come spring. Oh BTW glad you got the leaves raked ....now it's time to shovel snow.

 

I agree with PennyGuy, looks like Longacre doubling to me.

 

No Longacre doubling is on the dies when they are new and fades from use or lapping of the dies either before use or later after after having been used for awhile. (Longacre doubling can be found of proof dies, they are hardly the result of trying to extend their life.)

Longacre was trained as an flat plate engraver, not a die sinker. (Supposedly he got his appointment as Chief Engraver not by merit but by political influence. The problems he had in creating his first original coin designs, the gold dollar and double eagle, seem to confirm this.) I still believe the "shoulder" around the lettering and device punches were put their deliberately to act as a visual aid to tell when the punch had been driven deep enough into the die. When the "shoulders" began appearing you were deep enough. Later when the die was polished and basined to the proper curvature you once again watched the "shoulders" and when they disappeared you stopped and the die was properly finished. This would be a big help to someone not experienced in die sinking, and would also allow less trained workmen to create dies from standard punches.

 

You were very fortunate and is something I fear many of today's younger folks will never be able to experience. As great as the internet/websites/eBay may be for the hobby, they simply cannot replicate the face-to-face human interaction that once was a special part of this hobby, or able to contribute to many of the life lessons such contact once did.

Oddly enough, my experience was very similar to yours in that one of my mentors was happy to accommodate the fact I've never had any real desire to own coins, and was more than happy to allow me to "borrow" (within reason, of course) whatever piqued my interest in order to take home and study. I learned a great deal from that man not only about coins and business, but people and life in general and is something I am eternally grateful for.

 

Check out the reverse on mine. It is exactly the same, but it is a different year (1864). Now this is interesting.

 

This is why I love coin shows. I have also made great friends with a lcs in NC.

 

@PennyGuy @Paddy54 Do you guys think the reverse die was used in both 1864 and 1865?