One thing keeping me from getting coins graded...

True story - One guy, ME! Before I started getting formally educated on grading (a process that is NEVER EVER finished), I got LOTS of surprises, most of them unhappy ones. Since I took courses, nearly all my surprises are VERRRRRY pleasant ones.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Truth. That ones alive and well in shows, shops, and clubs as well

 

A mini holographic projector in the slab that can project a coin image above the slab that’s the next step. And this time I’m serious. Although I still won’t own slabbed coins.

 

As long as it’s Star Wars quality I’m in.

 

The "next step" already doubtless under way experimentally, is grading coins by Artificial Intelligence and neural network machine learning. Yes, solving the 2-dimension imaging problem and establishing a 3-dimensional imaging standard will need to happen first, so keep breathing for now.

 

Spinning? It has to be spinning slowly, or I'm out.

 

Fully controllable via Bluetooth link to your favorite smart device

 

I base that cent looking dipped on the fact that I have dipped copper and seen what it looks like...thats an answer you should like--It sounds like something you would say...

When you said this earlier: "Let's try this again. The folks who grade and authenticate at the professional level operate so far above the level of me and most of the rest of us here that their "opinions" are not really opinions."

Now grading is "subjective"?

Which is it? Are they so masterly its not really opinion or is it subjective?

I thought you were busy with your nephews questions

 

So you dont think a dealer sending in a 1,000 coins in one shot is going to get the benefit of the doubt? If he has a slider, you dont think its going to go in the positive direction? Will my slider get graded the same as the dealer's?

I do not ask facetiously. I really value your opinion and would like to know. You dont think dealer gets perferential treatment?

 

They do get preferential treatment, they get lower submission fees and sometimes faster turn around times but that's it. They don't get better grades

Grading has always been subjective. The literally criteria for a grade INCLUDES subjective aspects

 

Well, there is SOMETHING to it, if you go back and carefully parse what @baseball21 wrote farther upthread, it's there. Sometimes coins benefit from being in "a better grade of company". It's not intentional, but it IS human nature. I observed this even in grading classes. You get into a "groove" when you're looking at top-notch coins and then a slightly less nice coin comes along. All of a sudden, you're into, "Whoa, how MUCH less is this one?" It's hard to recalibrate the brain and eye instantly. If I send in a bunch of meh pieces, my best piece will be seen differently than if that same coin is hanging out with "monsters". To that extent, this is ALWAYS going to be subjective. But it has failsafes. Every coin is seen by at least two graders. If they AGREE, the finalizer just gives it a quick glance to see that the grade is okay. When the first two graders DISAGREE, then the finalizer becomes the "striped shirt", and referees the dispute.

 

Well it may be rumor but theres a ton of it out there...without trying too hard I found three sources:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/866060/do-dealers-get-better-grade-becasue-they-are-dealers

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.collecting.coins/tiaiXo1JCXc

http://coinsguide.reidgold.com/slabs.html

I know I know...hardly scientific...Well Ive read about enough people who've resubmitted big dealer graded coins only to get a lower grade when they submit as a lowly individual, to think there's something to it. You will believe what you want--or whats in your best interest to believe. I dont have a dog in the hunt. Why would someone make it up? If it happened to me, id be real pissed and would be telling anyone who would listen--or start rumors. In fact, I think theres a guy on CT who said he was doing a long term study of this. Let me find that...

 

This fits PERFECTLY with what I wrote. When a big dealer submits, a coin hangs out with other really nice coins, and gets the "eye calibration" benefit. When some shlub resubmits, it is often not in the same sort of company of fine specimens. Don't mix crud with good stuff.

@baseball21 is also onto another truth - don't mix silver and gold. Gold is softer, takes more hits, and suffers from being with more mark-free silver coins. Don't make some of your coins suffer by having unflattering coins around them. Understand human frailties and use them to your advantage, not your disadvantage.

 

mrjason71, posted: "I base that cent looking dipped on the fact that I have dipped copper and seen what it looks like...thats an answer you should like--It sounds like something you would say..."

That's the answer I was looking for. Or one like, "I work at one of the major TPGS's and this coin falls out of my company's accepted standards for natural color."

When you said this earlier: "Let's try this again. The folks who grade and authenticate at the professional level operate so far above the level of me and most of the rest of us here that their "opinions" are not really opinions."

Now grading is "subjective"?

Of course it is. I see no mystery, ambiguity, or contradiction in my statement. IMO, the SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS of a group of folks grading at the TPGS are usually more precise and correct than that of many others. Their opinion matters. Yours and mine does not but we can learn something from their opinions. That something is how the commercial coin market grades. We can still hold to our personal opinion and standard; yet it is best if we understand their standards. If we get to that point, numismatics might be less stressful and discussions like this would, well...

Then, I'd be able to spend more time with my nephews.

Which is it? Are they so masterly its not really opinion or is it subjective?

Read my post again and see if you can figure it out. Huey and Dewey have long ago. My other nephew is a little "slow."

I thought you were busy with your nephews questions

Only one of them does not get it - yet. I still have hope.

 

...or in other words, I too can pitch a baseball 60 feet, 6 inches. But two things are true. 1) You wouldn't want me doing it. 2) Even a Cy Young winner occasionally gets "taken yard".

Graders at TWO and EXACTLY TWO (no third one) firms are "Major Leaguers". They're better at it than you or I. That's no excuse to stop working on your game.

 

I found it. It was from imrich. Wasnt about dealer graded coins being resubmitted by individuals and getting lower grades...it was about crackouts getting hammered on regrade...just another thing that when added to all the other things, makes me feel the whole thing is just blatantly arbitrary and fly by night...Oh well...just need to find a big dealer to submit for me

 

Oh please. Stop right there before you hurt yourself. This can only lead to terminal self-embarrassment.

 

mrjason71, posted: " I don't have a dog in the hunt."

Oh, but you do, that's why you have posted this discussion in the first place. Happens all the time and all the "Ex-Perts" on the forums post antidotal evidence to prove the case you are making. We all have stories. It gets really old, really fast.

We are not dummies. If I owned a TPGS and one of my biggest customers had a coin that could be accurately graded AU one day and XF the next and the price spread was not too great... I believe it's called giving the submitter a "bone."

So, while I should throw him a bone every chance I could do so without harming the reputation of my company, I would not even give your coin a second "sniff."
In fact, I should not even want your business as I would not need the aggravation of just another "ex-pert" telling me how to grade and looking for errors I make every so often.

I can pick apart the links you posted but I will not. However, I really enjoyed the one where the guy writes how his coins were graded higher after he sold them. This may be the exact case I wrote about earlier. This kind of thing happens even now. It's called "Gradeflation."

 

I don't have a dog in the hunt either.



But then again....

The cat named his kill, too. I think it was "Roger". Karma.

 

mrjason71, posted: "...it was about crackouts getting hammered on regrade...just another thing that when added to all the other things, makes me feel the whole thing is just blatantly arbitrary and fly by night...Oh well...just need to find a big dealer to submit for me."

I don't think you should take the chance with your raw coins. If you do, yes, definitely submit through a dealer. It may ease your mind. BTW, standards get loose and tight over periods of time. If you don't know what you are doing, you may get hammered. If you do, you may like the results. Know the market conditions, what's going on at the TPGS at the moment, and how to grade for yourself. Works pretty good for the folks who don't complain about the real world.