Silver crown prices

It seems that this year silver crown prices have sky rocketed. This is base on my observations on Heritage, stacks and goldberg auction houses as well as on ebay. I mainly collect silver crowns such as thalers, double thalers, 8 reales, Ecu, 5 lire, piasters etc.. From my experience usually i could buy a good AU level crown around $500 but now it seems to get close to $1000. This is not for common coins but middle of the road rare coins.
Have you all seen similar behavior ?

 

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That's the basic trend I've been seeing and many other people have been discussing as well. Common stuff is soft, scarcer, higher grade and rare pieces are going strong.

 

Could be due to the fact world coin collecting seems to be "hot" right now. Just spit-balling - based on nothing more than my own observations over the past couple years.

 

I collect pre-1880 Italian and Sicilian crowns and I've seen the prices climb over the last 5 years. On Ebay even the common stuff has sky high BINs

 

Demand has been going up and good quality supply has sadly been going down. At the same time, counterfeiters trying hard to make a quick buck just makes it a lot harder.

 

yes i have been waiting for couple of papel state piasters for long time as well as somewhat common crowns from Italian colonies.

 

Thank you all for the inputs. I am glad i am not mistaken. I used to buy few times a year during January NYC sale and pre long beach sales but this year i have been outbid hopelessly. I have seen few occasions on ebay that certified crowns go for a reasonable price but i always stay away as a rule due to counterfeits. Is this new trend in world crowns due to new investors or young collectors ?

 

Sadly I just got into crowns/ecus/francs these past two years and I few I have gotten just above spot, but those Ecus, especially from the 1600s and 1700s...they were tough on the wallet and they are middle of the road grade wise.

But I am happy to get them.

Now I am focusing on GB groats from the medieval years. Those....wow....2018 goals!

 

Doppeltaler - I think we have eyes on the same prize. I have been buying/selling a few pieces a year for a little over 10 years now and I will agree that the prices seem to have inched up. However, I would suggest that it is a more steady year after year uptick than a recent spike. eBay might skew this perception because a few sellers heavy on the EF/AU/low MS talers have aggressive pricing. I thought the opposite that the more common EF/AU talers seem to be fairly soft at Heritage, Stacks, etc. I don't care for the competition, but perhaps more interest in this small niche in the overall coin market is healthy. If you take piastras specifically, there are no more than 300-350 total certified papal state piastras / scudos in NGC/PCGS holders (pre-1799). Is it possible that this is a tiny market which could be easily influenced by a few eager bidders? If that is your passion, I would love to see examples. I think 1600-1700s piastras are the peak of numismatic design for that time period.

I think the trend will be more stratification of the market to reflect grade and scarcity. The upper end is running away but I do not think the middle market talers/crowns is on the same trajectory. At least I hope not as a collector. Perhaps unrelated to talers specifically, but it will be interesting to see what happens to the overall numismatic markets when the equities market cools in the next 12-24 months.

 

Silver crowns cover a lot of time and types. I only pay attention to pillar and early portrait 8 reales auction prices and I believe the market for VF to low AU certified pieces has been soft for the last five years or so as compared to the previous five years. I agree that higher end 8 reales with great eye appeal have been popular with current buyers. 8 reales were minted in very large quantities -- likely much greater than any other contemporary silver crowns -- so high survival rates for modern collectors should influence prices. Perhaps the market for other types of silver crowns is approaching maturity as demand for lower availability types has its impact on prices.

 

I have a small collection of Doppeltalers of the German states 1840's to 1872.
My impression, without going into a profound analysis, is that prices of these coins have remained fairly stable, or if at all shown only moderate (15-30%) increases across all grades, for the last 10-15 years.
The only exception may be for the scarcer Doppeltalers (for example - Anhalt, Oldenburg, Hohenzollern, Waldeck, Sachsen Coburg-Gotha, Meiningen, Reuss) where prices seem to have gone up more significantly over this time period.

 

I have been looking at Spanish 8 reales for quite a some time and they have always been over my budget. I assume you are referring to South American 8 reales ?

 

Great another doppeltaler collector I have been looking at Bavarian doppeltalers as I already have few in my collection. The least expensive one is around $500 which is not That uncommon , late 1850 s. Of course the rare ones you mentioned are much more sought after.

 

Good catch, yes I meant the Spanish American 8 reales and generally the Mexico City mint regarding higher survivability rates.

 

I believe the rising prices are due to the rapid expansion of the money supply by central banks around the world. This money has not gone into the real economy but instead into bubble assets such as stocks, bonds, real estate, art, rare wines &c. To a lesser extent, some of it has entered the coin market as well, resulting in higher prices, especially for choice and rare coins while the more common and average quality stuff is much less affected. Curiously, Bitcoin (perhaps the biggest bubble of them all) has been rocketing out of our solar system while traditional inflation hedges such as precious metals have been stagnant or declining. How long this situation can continue is anybody's guess.

 

NGC's latest newsletter offers support for your observations. A number of prominent dealers offer their comments on the coin market. Here is a relevant extract:

Jim Halperin: “Heritage Auctions is not immune to the softening of the United States rare coin market, as fewer coins that realize $1 million are coming to market right now. But the exceedingly rare examples at auction met and often exceeded expectations. Our most significant investments surround world coins. Heritage celebrated its highest-grossing World & Ancient coin auction held in Hong Kong, with more than $5.4 million, and coin sell-through rates of more than 98 percent by lot..."

Retrieved from: https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6332/

 

I have one. Maybe we should start a "Post your doppletaler" thread.

 

Done

 

Thank you for sharing this. It seems Chinese coins go for crazy money these days along with Russian coins. Queen Victoria Hong Kong dollar is another one in my list for long time.

 

I am finding it a challenge to buy quality material as well as sell higher grade duplicates. Perhaps its the reliance on Ebay which has lost its path. There is no effective way to sell other than auctions.