Bottom-feeding as usual, I recently picked up a small bronze from Syracuse with the nymph Arethusa and an Octopus ($12.76). I've been trying to figure out what it is, exactly. The attribution information online is extensive, but my problem is, all these coins look pretty much the same to me (an E behind the bust seems to be the biggest factor, but I've yet to find an example where I can see it!). Here is a VCoins description that is typical: Dionisos I AE Tetras. Sicily, Syracuse Mint 400 BC. Obverse: Head of Arethusa left, hair in ampyx and sphendone. Reverse: Octopus. Calciati II, 33: 14; SNG ANS 391 Scarce. Size: 13mm, 2.72g. But I am also seeing this ascribed to the Second Democracy (from Catawiki): Sicily, Syracuse, 2nd Democracy c. 466-405 BC - Æ Hexas (14mm, 2,08g.) - Arethusa / Octopus - CNS 14; HGC 2, 1430. Tetras or Hexas? Dionysus or 2nd Democracy? Can anybody set me in the right direction? I'd love to see other examples. Mine is 13mm and 2.8 grams. The octopus is weak, but Arethusa is about as nice (stylistically) as I've been able to find online. First set of photos are the seller's which accentuate different colors that are barely visible to the eye - it mostly looks green to me (second photo, poor ones but green, are mine):
"Calciati II, 33: 14" and "CNS 14" are the same thing; R. Calciati's Corpus Nummorum Siculorum: La Monetazione di Bronzo #14. "II" is the volume. I don't know what 33 is, maybe the page number. Here is mine, with the right-facing head: Syracuse, 440-425 BC, AE trias, 14mm, 2.93g Obv: Head of Arethusa right, hair in koymbos (dolphin behind?) Rev: Cuttle-fish or octopus Lindgren Europe 550, Sear GCV 1184 ex-Clark's Ancient, list 120, March 2005, lot 60 I got this dating from Sear. Lindgren said Second Republic, 465-425 BC, but for the left facing one said 425-4th for no obvious reason. Many of the Syracuse coins suffer precise yet insecure dating because we know the history of Syracuse, but the coins are assigned by "style" to a particular period. They could be from the prior or next period of Syracusan history. Especially for the bronze.
Thank you Ed. I appreciate the information. This is my first Syracuse coin of any description (not just an octopus) and I have just started digging into the history. My ignorance is still pretty complete about all of this - coins, tyrants, republics. As you mention, I was beginning to suspect that the dating of these was somewhat arbitrary - I appreciate your confirmation of this.
You might find http://www.magnagraecia.nl useful if you haven't already checked it out. You'll find CNS 14 at the bottom of of this page. Mine is an onkia from the same period as yours. SICILY, Syracuse AE Onkia. 1.35g, 12.1mm. SICILY, Syracuse, Second Democracy, circa 466-405 BC. CNS 10. O: ΣVPA, Head of the nymph Arethusa, right; dolphin behind. R: Octopus; pellet between tentacles.
I might not say 'arbitrary' but we have to remember that some of these coins were issued over a rather long time and separating them into groups that line up with history may not be possible. First we would need to establish that the coins were changed when governments did. Dionysus or 2nd Democracy? Both? The coin shown on this page has a very different head with top knot which I would suspect means it was earlier than the OP coin but suspecting and proving may be different matters. Many are bothered by Greek coins being dated only to large general periods but there are cases where we lack certain evidence and must decide between guessing or being vague. The same goes for denominations. Some of these are marked with dots (two=hexas, three=tetras). Some we guess by saying yours weighs more like a tetras but this is why many of us hedge bets and say AE13. Do we risk being wrong and adding confusion or do we hide from doing the serious study to be able to advance knowledge with improved theories? Absolutely certain facts not needing extensive footnotes or hedges can be hard to find. I do not have an AE octopus and my AR litra is centered so as to be impossible to see the top of the head and hairstyle. It does show the city name in too small letters. This hemilitron has the topknot rather like the coin in zumbly's link but is it too much to suggest that it dates closely with that coin? Questions like this get addressed when new books by new scholars rethink old classics. We amateurs will be asked to accept their thoughts until the next rework come along.
Yup! I probably should have mentioned that the pictured example on that page is actually of CNS 1, whereas the rightmost column shows that the entry itself covers CNS 1, 12, 14 and 15. Clicking on the picture takes you to a separate page, which, while not showing a picture of CNS 14, indicates that for that one the nymph has her "hd left, hair in sphendone".
Thank you Zumbly and Doug for the information and insights (and other examples). This has been most helpful - I appreciate that you took the time to clarify things for me. I hadn't clicked on the image on the Magna Graecia page (I had discovered the site before I posted here, but I skipped over it, since I didn't think my coin was shown). But yep - C14 it is! I like Doug's take on attribution - despite my desire to "nail down" an ancient coin's denomination and issue date, in so many cases it just isn't possible. The thing that throws me sometimes is the string of authoritative & rather intimidating attributions I find in various VCoins or Wildwinds descriptions that are different, but apply to what look to me like several examples of the exact same coin. This is the case with my Octopus OP - I feel as if I am missing some key part of the puzzle. As Ed pointed out in an earlier post, it seems as if R. Calciati's Corpus Nummorum Siculorum: La Monetazione di Bronzo would be a helpful reference. If I could find it. Or read Italian... And yet for me the attribution is only a part of any ancient coin's appeal. These Octopus issues of Syracuse are beautiful, I think. The way those Greek artists could keep things so simple and yet so...profound? I am looking forward to digging deeper into Syracuse's interesting history (and coins). Thanks again to all for all your help.
The book is bilingual in English and Italian. About one copy sells per year. The problem is the money. I know one sold a couple of years ago at NYINC for $1121. If you don't mind your information being out of date, Barclay Head's 1874 paper The Chronological Sequence of the Coinage of Syracuse is free online. That was the book that made Head famous and established the technique of trying to reverse-engineer coins to rulers. https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/pdfs/Syracuse_Coinage_Head.pdf
..that sounds like what i've experienced in the last few days. i recently bought a print of Van Goghs lost version of Sorrow and framed it..then went about with the thought of buying one of Vincents original letters to Theo, only to find out those are considered art and can't be purchased other than at Christies or maybe get a copy from Barnes & Noble.
Thanks for the info, Ed. Yeah, I kind of figured that book may be all but unobtainable (like Crawford's Roman Republican 2-decker). Thanks for the link to Head - I'll check it out.
I love that Van Gogh - I recently started in on the Naifeh-Smith biography of the artist, where I first encountered "Sorrow" - what a great work, and not what I usually think of when I think Van Gogh...thanks for sharing.
While not easy to find, the cheap option book is Favorito. https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=92045 The photos are not great but he shown several interesting coins in a thin paperback aimed at those not ready to spend $1121. You can't beat free but there are some who prefer paper.
OCTOPI: SYRACUSE: SYRACUSE 2nd Democr 466-405 BCE Æ Tetras 2.7g 15mm c.425 BCE Arethusa dolphins - Octopus 3 pellets SNG ANS 376 Calciati II.21.1 Ex: Mr Badfinger Himself - @John Anthony Sicily Syracuse AE Onkia 12-10mm 1.4g 425-415 BCE Arethusa - Octopus BMC 249 Ex: @Valentinian
Glad you like it Mike , one of his earlier works and most likely not known well amongst the general public. I appreciate your artist knowledge.
I have always liked that pic. Nope, not an artist, but remember that pic and always liked it. Well done @ominus1 !!!
