1909-S VDB Cent - Grade??

environmental damage, scratched, cleaned, suspect "S" mintmark,
"Details Grade VG-F"

 

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VG10 details, the color is off or your white balance is way off. Hard to tell that that black background. I wish everyone used white so we can mentally calibrate the white balance! The S is also questionable, I'm not seeing the die chip and the upper loop of the S doesn't look right to me.

 

Agree with VG-10. The reverse may be F-12 but the obverse is beat up VG-08.
Agree with post #21 "environmental damage, scratched, cleaned, suspect "S" mintmark".
Also agree that this looks like a metal detector find, and whoever cleaned it, ruined it. The obverse is very beat up, and yet the mint mark stands out almost untouched, and the area around the S is super clean in all the crevices. Seems odd.

 

F12 cleaned

 

@ilmcoins Is it possible to get more pictures of the coin? I think that we've got enough to say this is worth submitting, but some apparently disagree.

Specifically, do you have the ability to take some closer shots of the date/mintmark? I think even if you gave us more shots of the obverse with different lighting, we might be able to clear this up.

 

Fine, strait grade. Just one of those funny light planchets

 

Unfortunately, it is boxed up and ready to ship Monday. I will report back how it grades. Thanks for your insight!

 

It looks genuine to me with environmental damage. I could go as high as F-12.

 

Looking forward to finding out.

 

As been posted previously in this thread overlays are not the solve all. And never should be relied on a sole means of determining authenticity. A counterfeit can be produced with all the design elements correctly placed. But a coin whose design elements deviate significantly from an overlay can be determined counterfeit with a high level of confidence. As for the coin in the OP being counterfeit it would probably be best to say inconclusive. Personally I don't like it. Keep us informed of the results.

 

The coin is genuine. I should sell it as a Fine but the guys who said VG are correct according to the generally accepted standards. Unfortunately what happens is grades tend to inflate to be in line with value. As posted above, the reverse makes Fine but the flat face of Lincoln is VG. I grade Lincolns by the reverse but obviously, the obverse is the more important side.

 

Well-said.

 

Very nice! Can you narrow down that last picture to just MM position #4? I don't think it is any of the others, but I think that obverse 4 matches fairly well (accounting for the angled pictures in the OP). Just my gut feeling.

I look forward to seeing what the authenticators say with it in hand!

 

Indeed, and thank you for taking the time to clarify for those who may not have understood this.

 

Yes - Obverse 4
Red "S" Obverse 1
Blue "S" Obverse 2
Orange "S" Obverse 3
Green "S" Obverse 4

And diagnostics for Obverses 1, 2 and 3 are no longer an issue and therefore when making an authentication one can concentrate on diagnostics for Obverse 4 only.

 

This one just had a real rough trip through life, that's all...