First Strike commercial coin.

Came across this 2005 D Kansas coin. This one is in pretty bad shape, I would say due to being in circulation.
This coin even though you may not see it in the photos has an extremely high luster to it.
Almost if it was a proof coin the difference is the raised images are not frosted.
I have ran across a few of these over the years.
I remember reading the article in coin world about first strike commercial coins.
I can see why their coveted and sought after, this is not in the best shape but is still has a lot of luster to it. USMC60

 

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I have a 1966 Kennedy half dollar that I don't think is SMS I believe it's a first-strike coin comparing it to all of the PCGS photos it would definitely be a first strike specially circulation I'll post a pic now let me know what you think thanks Willie

 

Extremely nice. I know you are happy when you found that one, and I bet It confused you a little at first.
I know when I found my first quarter. The first thing I thought that someone had electroplated it.
But the more the research I did I found out that these were First strike coins on a commercial basis.
Again real nice find, I guess a lot of members have not had the pleasure of finding one of these gems. I can see why coin world says that they are extremely collectible.

I can't speak for the Kennedys, but for the quarters these coins are usually at the bottom of the been since they are first strike so before they hit the general public they take a lot of abuse. But I enjoy finding them when I do. USMC60

 

Thanks B

 

Thank u for your service

 

I just paid $13 for an ms65 slabbed by PCGS off of eBay I'm going to compare that coin to my coin when I get it and see if my coin is higher than 65 instead of spending $60 with PCGS I buy a coin for 15 I get the coin I get a comparison so I'm going to trick them they're grading his skills very strange anyways thanks for all your help and have an awesome day

 

While it may be hard to focus on coins in a coin forum ... please try. Posts removed.

 

There is no such thing as a First Strike coin.

Those are terms used by Grading Services to
help 'sell' the encapsulated coin.

It refers to the first DAY the coins are released,
but in general, the Mint can strike millions of
coins before the official release date; there is
no way to determine ANY coin was struck the
first day - it's actually First Release Date coin tags
that people buy or collect.

Any nice BU State Quarter or Kennedy Half is
just a nice BU coin - not a 'First Strike Commercial
Coin' - there is no such thing.

 

Well Mr. Weinberg what you're saying is absolutely true.
But Sir what I'm calling a first-rate coin I would put in the category of the first 750 coins at the machine puts out when it first starts with a brand-new die.
These first 750 may be the first five or extremely well hit because of the brand-new dies. And in my view I would consider these what would be called cold strike coins.
And Sir there is a difference in them. They have been found throughout the years, I will try and find the coin World article that talks about these coins.

I don't know Mr. Weinberg, what would you call the first couple coins that are struck by the press. I don't know I'm just an old Marine with an old way of thinking that these coins were the first one struck from this machine at this time I'm going to call them first strike coins.I personally do not believe that is the wrong term.
But then again I'm not an established expert I'm just an old Marine.

I'm surprised Sir that in all the years in the shows that you have done, that no one has walked up to you with one of these coins.
Sir I was actually up in a coin shop up in Seattle, when a young gentleman came in with one of these quarters. The owner told the gentleman what he had was a proof quarter. Worth about $.50.

The gentleman left the store and I told John you didn't recognize That the quarter did not have any frosting on the high spots which distinguished it from a proof coin.
He basically told me all he seen was shine and luster of the coin and took it for a proof coin. That was my first experience with these coins over 20 years ago.
Sir there is a difference in the coins.And since there's such a small quantity of them. coin world consider them quite collectible. I should know I have a couple myself.
USMC60

 

You have your understanding of the Minting Process,
and I have mine.

First you called them First Strikes, now you're calling them
First-Rate coins. I will agree that in general, the first
few thousand, to 10K strikes will look better than a coin
struck after the dies have struck 100,000 coins. That's
just the nature of the process. Other than that, there is
no special-ness about them, except they're nicer strikes.

If you enjoy finding or buying nicely struck coins, that's
great - that's what coin collecting is about. Please don't
try to convince us (or me) that there is anything else 'special'
about them. Call them first strikes, fresh strikes, new strikes,
Lucky Strikes, whatever - they are coins minted in huge quantities
to be used for commerce, in circulation, by a manufacturing process.

 

If you find a well-struck coin, that’s great. But the coin grading services did the hobby a disservice with their “first releases.” If they are worth so much more, why aren’t they noted in their price guides?

 

Fred Weinberg
Sir it's apparent you're unaware of my situation. Sir I have dyslexia and I cannot spell I've had this all my life. I rely on voice recognition. And sometimes voice recognition does not recognize the words correctly. My mistake and I admit it I do don't check my words as often as I should, so words do get misspelled.

And Sir it's quite apparent that you've never ran across some of these coins, which I find surprising over the many years that you been in business.
Fred Weinberg What's not surprising to me a big majority of people that are in this hobby have a limited understanding of the steel that is used to make dies. And people that have work with hardened steel in their life have a little better understanding of what the steel is capable of and what is not.This is a basic understanding of dies that most people learn about.
I have found even the professionals know very little about steel. It's not part of the learning process in NUMISMATIC studies.Here's one little trivia fact the steel in dies actually gets harder the longer the die is in use. True or false.And another simple question what occurs when you have a hot planchet and cold steel what chemical reaction happens.

Sir on occasion when I'm at breakfast on the weekend I like having a little fun. Let's just say I'll take one of these first hit planchet's, put it with three other quarters lay them on the counter and have an individual pick out the different quarter.
And 100% yes I said 100% of the time all individuals pick out the first hit quarter out of three.Since you your uncomfortable with first strike I will use first hit.
And Sir when the technician at the mint sets up a press with new dies. I would say the first 10 planchet struck out of this press would be considered cold Strike coins.
What I mean by this you have a new die. the machine just started up that die is still at whatever the ambient temperature is. Then you have a preheated planchet hot. These first coin struck her with a cold die, this is where the question comes up what happens when you have hot metal and cold metal what happens.
Sir this is where them first hit planchet's coins usually end up' At the bottom of the pile. Sir I'm talking less than 10 coins out of thousands.Sir I totally agree with you when you're talking thousands of commercial coins, nothing special about them. But out of them thousands the first ones hit are the planchet's or coins that I'm talking about.
A extremely small amount of coinage. Because within the first minute to five minutes that press is up to operating temperatures. So it does not take long for a hot die and I hot planchet gives you the basic commercial coinage. And Sir with your knowledge you should know this.And like I said Mr. Weinberg coin world has had articles about this. That's what surprises me that you're not aware of this.
And Sir other members on this forum have found them just like the member up at the top of this thread with the Kennedy.
Mr. Fred WeinbergSir I don't know what to say it's unfortunate that you have never come across one of these coins. But I myself have several. and it seems other members have some to. Sir they do exist. USMC60

 

Sir here is another photograph picked the unusual quarter out of the bunch Like I said Mr. Weinberg these quarters nickels or dimes stand out from the others and are fairly easy to spot. Out of the thousands these are very few. And Sir that's what makes them collectible.I know the photo is Of very poor quality but that's the best I can do with what I have to work with. USMC60

 

Good Morning -

No problem with the word mix-up; I fully understand,
and that's not a problem.

However, as I said in my post above, your understanding
of the minting process is different from mine.

 

good morning to you. Sir I don't believe my understanding of the minting process is any different than yours. I find that statement a little confusing. Trying to understand what you mean by that. The only thing that changes in the minting process is the equipment. I would really like to understand what you mean by your statement.
If there is a lesson to be learned here I am more than willing to learn something new.
But what I am trying to point out is not new.

Mr. Weinberg I was almost sure the photos of the four quarters would show you the difference. I I'm trying to express. And this only occurs the first milliseconds of the production.
Mr. Weinberg as far as I'm aware of nobody has ever taken let's say even the first 40 coins struck from a press with new dies. I'm only going by my experience working with metals over half my life. Just like you're going with your experiences over a good portion of your life.

I can only speak for myself as far as this goes, I personally would pay premium for those first 40 coins off the press with new dies if the mint certified that.

Mr. Weinberg I respect you and the many years of experience that you have.
But when I hold a coin in my hand that is circulated commercial coin.
That plainly has a different appearance, and that has not been falsely altered.
And that has come directly from the mint this way, from the first one that I acquired,
the research that I have found, indicates that these were first production coins.

This only verified what I know about tempered steel and metal working.
USMC60

 

No chemical reaction occurs, a mechanical one might but no chemical change happens. Also the planchets are not hot when they are struck. So the first striking are between cold steel and cold planchets. What you are describing and calling "first strikes" are simply very early die stage coins.

 

Technically you are correct in stating that there are first strike coins that probably look a lot sharper than a coin struck a few hundred (or thousand) with the same die. The problem with designating it as a first strike is that the mint releases them all at the same time and nobody knows for sure which one was the first or 999th coin struck. People get them in bags on the first day of release, pick out the best ones and send them in to be graded. They should be called "Early Release" as nobody knows for certain which were the first few struck. At one time TPGers would use the Early Release on their label. Don't know if they still do that.

 

Well stir to start off with, it's quite obvious you've never worked with metals before. I spent half my life working with metals in various kinds of ways.
And Sir if you go back and you check on the minting process you will see that after the wash the blanks go to a drying process at this time the blanks are also heated, which occurs during the drying process.
Heating up the blanks makes a metal easier to work with this is all information that could be found out watched the little video that the other member has put up about the minting process.
Now only common sense tells you the first coins is just that the first coins that are struck by the press during the operation.

And it seems your one of the many that have never come across one of these coins.
And Sir when you find one and examine it well I don't know.

To me it looks like nobody uses any common sense anymore the first coin struck by the press are first strike coins no matter how you look at it. The first coin struck by the press it says it right there first struck or strike would they both apply.

And Sir you're absolutely correct you're talking about maybe 10 at the most, out of thousands. And Sir these coins I have been finding and other members have been finding.
You see that big been up at the photo with a little circle. The little circle indicates the first 10 coins that are hit by the press end up at the very bottom of the bend.

But Sir when you come across one of these coins you will know it. And out of hundreds of thousands sir you will know when you come across one of these coins.

Now I may have been mistaken by using the word chemical reaction and I admit it it may be the wrong term. What happens is a rearrangement of molecules within the metals, and if you work with metals you would have seen this a numerous amount of times.
Sir the only thing I will continue to say on this matter is to please do a little research about metals, and that easier way maybe you will understand is when you take a piece of 3 inch stock steel and apply a certain amount a heat to that steel,
it changes the molecules in the steel which hardens the steel. That's about the best example I can use.
Sir I only know about certain things because of actually lived it and worked it but you can find this information up by looking it up online.

Sir you take this big been of coins.
Now this big Ben of coins goes to another part of the mint where it's dumped into a big bowl where at this particular time these are bagged up into smaller bags. For resale they all come out in one big production been.
Then some of these coins go to make your mint sets.Because all uncirculated mint sets are is commercial coinage. I have found better coinage going through circulated coins that I have found in my mint sets.

I will end this conversation by just saying those first few coin struck generally get put into circulation and maybe one day you'll be lucky to find one and you can start doing your own research of why that coin looks the way it does.
USMC60

 

I basically answered part of your question in my reply to the other member. And all I will say is when you're lucky enough to find one you will know it.
Then you can do like I just told the other member you can start doing your own research of why that coin looks the way it does.

And those bags you buy and spend a premium amount for they are nothing special they come out of a big Ben of commercial coins.
I just went through 4000 Ellis islands that I only paid face value for. You can get them from your local bank if you know what to look for.

Now if you were To go to the bank that I go to like I did yesterday, and asked the teller for a roll or a couple rolls of the new quarters. Guess what this bank would give you a couple of the new Ellis Island rolls that I had just turned in.I always make sure the teller knows that these are the new quarters for any one that asked for them even though they've already been searched.

You made an interesting statement, you say the mint releases these coins all at the same time. I don't know all the articles that I've ever read the mint even has certain events on the days that they release certain coinage. So you may want to rephrase that statement. Now I can only speak for the Federal Reserve in South Florida.
This Federal Reserve gets its coinage from the Philadelphia mint.. They get their coinage in big bulk bins like you see in the photo. The director of the Federal Reserve here in South Florida determines when he is going to release certain coins in to the public by giving them to the company's that actually roll the coins up for the banks.

The mint just does not flood the market with the new coinage the only release that new coinage as it's needed in the general public. But you can go pay a premium for a bag of commercial coinage but you're going to pay that premium.
I prefer to wait until they release it to the general public and just pay cost.
USMC60

 

I agree 100%. I think we all agree that the first coins struck from a fresh set of dies are going to be well struck, as a normal. Nothing special about these coins.