1794 Large Cent

Again not correct....again call the U.S. Customs Service,...I did, and no matter if they did seize the item,or not it is 100% illegal to import counterfeit coins into any port of the U.S. or territory protected by the U.S. Customs Service.
Just because you believe they did not seize the item does not mean they inspected it or it may of passed unfound.
Never the less it's illegal.

 

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The law prohibits the importation of unmarked fakes only if they are to be sold or spent. It also says that they are subject to seizure, but there is no requirement for them to be seized. That is up to the discretion of the US Customs officials.

 

Gonna jump in here.

A) They were sold to you
B) How would you be able to prove no intent to sell? You're a coin dealer, right?

That's like saying it's legal to drive 85 mph down a residential street if the cops don't see you, or rob a bank, or commit murder, as long as you don't get caught.

 

Exactly you can double talk all you like spliting hairs of what you believe the law to be.
Ask a U.S.Customs Service Agent....and you will be told the importing of any contraband item under U.S.Law is illegal. Just one reason Ebay won't allow any Cuban items sold either pre or post embargo. They aren't going to run the risk of being tied up in a Federal law suit. That goes for any other nation considered an outlaw nation.
Try and bring back turtle shell items from the Caymans, try getting off a cruise ship in Florida with a piece of fruit from any Caribbean island.
When a cruise ship enters a port it is surrounded by U.S. Customs. Until it clears customs.
Example a ship leaves SanJuan PR. Sails throughout the Caribbean enters St Thomas USVI the ship is subject to a customs search.....it leaves St Thomas USVI
Sails 90 miles over to San Juan and again all on board are subject to clearing customs.
Does it mean that Customs catch all items of contraban no of course not....that doesn't change the law....or what's on Customs hot list.

 

Nice thread, folks..Thank you.

 

And I have sold none of them, which is what the law is referring to.

I have not sold any of my fakes in the months and years I have owned them, even ones that eBay sellers deceptively placed in large lots that I lost money on. That sets a pretty strong precedent, doesn't it? And if the Secret Service really want to investigate, they can ask anyone in my coin club and they will say that I use them as educational tools, or they can look at my purchase records and see I still have all of the fakes I bought.

Fair enough

 

Yes, even if you don't intend to sell them. It would be a violation under section D Provision of Assistance or Support

(d) PROVISION OF ASSISTANCE OR SUPPORT.—It shall be a violation of subsection (a) or (b) for a person to provide substantial assistance or support to any manufacturer, importer, or seller if that person knows or should have known that the manufacturer, importer, or seller is engaged in any act or practice that violates subsection (a) or (b).

So if you buy them and import them and you know or should have known that the seller is making them in violation of section b, then YOUR act is also a violation of section b (Section B covers making or importing unmarked copies intended to enter commerce.)

(b) COINS AND OTHER NUMISMATIC ITEMS.—The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce, or the sale in commerce of any imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked “copy”, is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act.

So if you buy from someone knowing, or you should know, they are making fakes to enter commerce, then you have violated sec B as well. So even importing them for yourself is illegal.

 

It clearly states "for the into or distribution into commerce" which would be spending it which hes not doing. Which would leave us with the other part "or the sale into commerce of any imitation numismatic item..." which would require him to sell which he's not doing. They way they wrote it if you aren't spending or selling it it's fine.

If it's for the importation period why are there conditions laid out in the section? Both conditions require the coin to enter commerce for a violation to have occurred which simple possession is not an introduction into commerce for obsolete series

 

One only needs to look up the definition of commerce to realize that "the orginial purchase" of said item makes it illegal.
Was the item in question paid for using U.S. dollars? So yes a value given.
Was the item in question shipped across international or across state boarders ?yes it was!
Then said item was involved in commerce making it illegal.

 

Not with how they worded it it's not. "For introduction" is the key word there. That's applying intent to the buyer. If simple importation is what they wanted banned they would have just said the importation for any reason

 

Reread section D. If you are buying them from someone that is making them with the intent that they get put into commerce, even if you have no intention of doing so, then YOU have committed a violation of section B. (Manufacturer is making something that violates Section B and you are providing them support, by buying them, then you are violating Section B as well.)

 

We can just agree to disagree cus that just isn't how section B is written. A good lawyer can easily get someone out of those charges from someone who just bought one for themselves. If they want it to be for any importation than they need to amend that section

 

It's a collectible US coin being shipped from China.

 

The way section B is written implies that the manufacturer and seller need to be based in the US.

And then there is the ambiguous phrase "substantial assistance or support." Exactly how much is substantial? 10¢? $10000? Buying enough so that the seller can have decent meals for the next couple days?

 

Doesn't matter. Unless they are trained experts they have no way to determine validity.

 

When Customs does an inspection it is under no time frame what so ever, that said they can hold any item indefinitely. That said the item in question can be held ,or confiscated. I've had jewerly opened at Kennedy airport NY by Customs,unwrapped from its packaging, inspected, held two weeks,thrown back in the package"unwrapped, and a slip charging me the duty on the item .
A pair of ear rings for my wife ,one was in the gift box,the other found in the outer package. Wrapping paper ribbon all bunched up in the package.
So they can hold and do what ever they please to determine the status of any item.
Since the package came from the Cayman islands I suspect they were looking for turtle shell items.
Again depending on port of entry ,and a ever changing items they are targeting for inspection.
Ask our friends from tne great white north.....their inspections are from A to Z and their post man will collect any duty from you before you are given the package.

There was a member who went by the screen name of "fake Canada" Mike single handedly stopped ebay Ca. From allowing fake coins on the site. To be sold in Canada!
He also worked with the Canadian government to close it's borders to any item being sold unless it was clearly marked "Fake" or "Copy" .
There are probably members on CT who remember Mike or know of his efforts to prohibit such items in Canada.

 

Without reading the thread through, I will say that I have almost a roll of these.

 

Isn't there only one "R" in America?



...made you look? ...

 

If it had a hole you would see the zinc innards. China won't allow industrial or precious metals to leave its borders.

 

And yet ebay is a co-conspirator in this illegal activity.