1795 Silver Dollar. Genuine?

The toning looks similar to the batch of some of the super counterfeits coming out in the market.

 

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Edge lettering was applied before striking not after.

On the NA and President dollars it is applied after striking.

 

My only question is.. Where did you acquire it?

 

The Eagle's feet look wrong from the picture on the perch. As stated the 5 also scares me.

 

If you really want this expensive coin, I would offer to pay for HIM/HER to submit it to a TPG, and if it straight grades, then you will buy it at an agreed upon price.
Better to risk $50 than $XXXX.xx

 

That is what I offered to do. Appreciate everyones comments.

 

Thanks for correcting me. I should have remembered that.
The raised rim helped the metal flow into the dentils on the dies better. According to Bowers, the height of the rim varied considerably in different years, Probably the spacing on the bars of the edge lettering machine was adjusted from time to time, or replaced.
Since the there was no collar in the screw press to position the planchet, it makes sense that being a little off center would affect the appearance of the dentils/rims

 

I think from the images the best that can be hoped for is a "genuine" holder as that coin has clearly been cleaned. However, even a "genuine" 1795 dollar is a significant historical artifact (I have one) and worth owning (at the right price of course)

 

That's appropriate. Authentication aside, there's no real way to determine what a TPG will adjudicate regarding surface originality with a coin like this, even considering a greater amount of leeway will be granted for one so well-worn. The result makes for a rather wide swing in what constitutes a "fair" price.

 

I agree that it's probablly not genuine. LOTS of fakes of early stuff coming in from China and Eastern Europe. I wouldn't buy anything from a dealer I didn't know well these days.

Also, the "Castaing machine" is a misnomer for the upsetting mill. The blank went through the upsetting mill, which made it round and the right diameter, before being struck. At least that's how they did it with copper coins. I doubt silver was handled any differently.

 

The Castaing machine forced a blank between to engraved metal bars, one fixed and one movable, which imprinted the edge and forced up the rims. The upsetting machine came later, and forced the blank between a rotating disc and a grooved fixed plate. It processed blanks a lot faster, but did not impart edge decoration or lettering. https://medalblog.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/i’m-upset-upsetting-machines-get-no-respect/

 

They did not agree to authenticate it or let me inspect it. I just saw it is now listed on the Bay. The seller also listed a chinese coin worth tens of thousands for $30 starting bid among other chinese coins. Glad I didnt move on this one

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/132404736795

 

Yes, the company it's keeping does not inspire confidence.

 

Very smart move

 

Has there been a consensus?

 

Flowing hair dollars, even in the grade of fine, run about $3000 retail. There are few bargains out there on authentic, problem free coins. My advice would be only buy from a reputable seller, and make sure the coin is NGC, PCGS, or ANACS certified.

 

No doubt it is a modern production, like his other things.

 

A brand new member, with no feedback but a Chinese name, and he is listing a $3000 for a starting bid of $49.99. Even if I thought the coin genuine I doubt I would be tempted.

 

It was listed after it got offered to me. I wasnt aware of the other red flags until then. Glad I held off. I just feel bad for the person that ends up with it. If they catch it quickly they can at least rely on the buyers guarantee... more than likely the poor guy/gal will hold onto it for a few years and get the bad news when they try to sell it.

 

Just like the Pillar Dollars. The edge should not be flat, but bulged a bit.