Nope, you were perfectly clear. As to the consistency of grading: This is a proven fact and makes for a great demonstration as I learn has been done in at least three TPGS's - one no longer with us. Try this at a coin club for fun. Get about twenty circulated nickels from AU+ to Fine (several can be the same grade like VF-35, etc.) and have each player grade them individually in a "coded #" 2X2 (so their grade won't change). Then as a group, lay the coins out in a line from low to high grade. It is easy to do this part and in most cases, they may disagree on one or two BUT the surprise comes when each person checks the individual grade they assigned and how they graded some higher or lower than the "accepted" grade from the progression of wear, eye-appeal, etc. Additionally, a coins acceptable grade will change in plastic. In the same type of test with the grades covered on the slab, students and professionals will assign a different grade than they did originally. I've taken the time to write all this because you are correct in this respect. Looking at even a few hundred slabs will look like no one at a TPGS knows what they are doing - especially if we don't like their opinion. Additionally, there are different levels of experience applied as the value of the grading tier goes up. For example, I've heard that for some coins, only the owner of the company grades the coin! Is the grade one owner assigns different from another? Often yes. That and several other factors is why "upgrades" occur. Also, we must include the crossovers at the same grade where ICG and ANACS coins -which as I say are graded similarly - suddenly become more valuable. TPGS's play a useful and important role. You and I can find all sorts of discrepancies. Nevertheless, in the big picture, the grading is very similar.
Well, what does very similar in the big picture mean exactly? They've all been in business long enough to be reputable and they market grade coins, so no, you wouldn't expect to see huge differences between them. So sure I guess? But is that a meaningful observation? There are observable differences in how the TPGs handle things like toning, planchet defects, minor problems, how they handle grading rare issues and key dates, especially where a price jump is involved from one grade to another. These differences manifest also on a series by series basis, and can change over time. They're not going to be huge differences, but they are there. For example, historically NGC was more lenient than PCGS when it came to toning, but then a couple years ago they tightened up so as to be very similar with PCGS. This is an observation that I think few would dispute. Another example, looking through my records of world coin crossovers from PCGS to NGC over the last 5 years, I can see that 90% of the coins crossed at a grade lower (not counting +). Is a one grade difference very similar grading in the big picture that can be dismissed, or is it meaningful enough to form an opinion that PCGS generally overgrades world coins? So where do these differences come from? Well the TPGs have their own internal guidelines to follow, which may be affected by their own policies, and that affects the grades produced. They also employ different people, who will have different grading styles and specialties that affect grades over a long period of time as well. Having said that, they also use multiple graders in order to help to produce more homogeneous grades over time and balance out the impact of individual grading styles. For example, NGC uses three graders for each coin, and then a finalizer. Nevertheless, these differences exist to the point where one can look at a coin and make an educated guess as to how all three TPGs would grade it.
In that case cross-over bias likely played a significant role. With both of them their stingiest grades are done on crosses having to grade through a slab. You likely would have seen more even grading or even some upgrades along with the downgrades if you had submitted raw. I do agree though that there are differences between the two and would say luster and eye appeal probably plays a slightly bigger role at PCGS (which I prefer that style) in mid and upper MS grades.
I would agree with you except that I wholly agreed with the new grades. With only one exception, I thought the PCGS grades were one point too high myself when I submitted them for crossover. The coins that did not downgrade all graded the same (no upgrades) and I agreed with those as well. I find myself looking at world coins in PCGS slabs and fairly consistently looking at their 66s and saying it's a 64 or 65. Looking at their 65s and saying it's a 63 or 64, etc. They are just overgraded on the whole.
@Jaelus You make a compelling argument. There are some flaws in your statements that are no big deal. For example: "historically NGC was more lenient than PCGS when it came to toning,..." I guess it depends on what "historically" means to you. As for me, "historically" it was just the opposite. Additionally, the World Grading Team at NGC (IMO) is superior to that of PCGS. That may change since Jay's departure for CA. That may also account for the grading differences you mention. TPGS grading is subjective. You've allowed me some wiggle room by letting me to use the word "similar." To be honest, I really don't care how PCGS or NGC grades coins. As long as I can examine one of their slabs in-hand with the grade covered and correctly hit their grade over 90% of the time and then tell you why it was graded that way - I'm happy. I'll leave it like that.
My firm use NGC on when we are doing huge bulk modern submissions and PCGS for ultra rarities but that is just what us
ed wood 654, posted: "My firm use NGC on when we are doing huge bulk modern submissions and PCGS for ultra rarities but that is just what us." Hey, welcome back Mr. Wood. How is that big building of yours coming along? You showed us the plans for it. Is it finished? Any photos of the building? I was just wondering what name does your firm use when sending in huge bulk modern submissions to NGC?
Hi Kentucky, I haven't seen that many GTGs on the forum for me to dominate plus I've just haven't had much time to post cause I have been so busy working my Dubai connections, unfortunately way too many bullion deals lately but the money has been way too much to pass up. I really hate focusing so much just on money but how can you pass up so much cold hard cash when you are a relatively new company? I am putting together a catalog for a really big 2019 auction that will be showcasing some coins that haven't been on the market for many, many, many years because they have been overseas. I hired my roommates dad away from management position at one of the TOP 3rd party graders to curate it Pretty much on par with the Pogue Collection but I really cant say too much about it a the moment because of privacy of my overseas clients and also because I don't want to impact the market. I will be taking out some ad space soon online and in magazines soon too. ED
Just about every coin on Ebay that has been graded by PCGS goes sells higher than a coin that is identical graded by NCgs, some of them go as far as a 100 bucks more especially if it's a high grade low mintage
Dear Ed, old chap, Makes really good business sense. Always staying the course and keeping your eye on the prize; that's the Ed I know and love. Sincerely, your compadre, Sigmund "Siggi" Freud IV
Either you're happily playing along with the gag, or, much less likely, you really don't know that the entire "Ed Wood, coin dealer" is a deliberately-far-fetched fairy tale, in other words, a complete, total, utter and absolute spoof.
