I just bought a IHC graded MS-65RB by PCGS. My assumption is that slabs are not perfect storage devices, but probably the best. Let's assume also that in 25 years the coin has toned to a brown. In spite of the labeling on the slab, does the coin then have to be treated as MS-65BR? Or is a PCGS slab good enough to keep a coin as good as the day it was slabbed?
Good question. 'fraid the only way to find out if it'll still be RB is to keep it for 25 years . lol. Seriously, it really depends on the environment you keep it in.
You will need to keep the coins in a suitable environment to minimize/avoid toning. Other than that, yes, I would treat the coin as BR even if it was in a RD slab. If I was buying, I would bid or offer accordingly.
Actually I probably won't have to worry about it. There's only a slim chance I'll be around in 25 years. I'll kick off and stick someone else with the problem
There are literally thousands of copper coins slabbed by PCGS and NGC as Red that are as brown as any circulated wheatie. Of course they will likely stay in those slabs for eternity for that very reason. For there are still those out there who buy the slab instead of the coin. This is why for years and years NGC would not guarantee copper coins. Even now, with their "airtight" slab, NGC will only guarantee copper for 10 years. That should tell you something.
I don't know about anyone else but for myself and a few others I know, if a coin is stated on a slab as one thing and appears different, I pass. I would never buy a coin in a slab stated as Red and it is Brown. To my way of thinking that would mean possible tampering with the slab. I've seen a slab opened and a coin replaced for fun and it was not possible to tell how. So, if it stated Red and was anything but Red, I'd pass.
now if the coin was slabbed by a tpg for you and it came back as red and then 'turned' brown after a time, then you would be able to have the guarantee kick in for you from the tpg. especially if your coin just lost a big chunk of change because of the difference between red and brown for that coin and grade. grizz
I sent an e-mail to PCGS asking the question "What happens if a coin changes from it's original designation." Actually I was mostly interested to determine if there was an "expected life" for a slab. Frankly I expected a vague answer. Their response was professional and about as definitive as could be expected. Here it is: "We guarantee the coin as long as the coin remains in a PCGS holder. If for whatever reason the coin turns color or does not appear to be Red-Brown then you may send the coin back to PCGS for a guarantee resubmission. We will review the coin and come to a resolution of either buying the coin back from you or changing the designation and giving to a check in the difference from one value to another. Again all of this is decided if and when the coin comes to PCGS because of change in an un-tampered PCGS holder." I don't believe I could have received a more positive statement of policy, and at the same time be satisfactory within the bounds reasonableness.
it is sad, and hopefully not the way PCGS would do it... but what they say, and what they do, are not always the same. one can only attempt to uae this policy to see what PCGS would really do.
Yes, I too am impressed. But if it ever came down to it, and they did have to buy back a coin, what prices would be used ? Would they use the values on their website (normally inflated), or would this be a negotiation, a la coin shows ?
Or more importantly, are they giving you the price of the coin WHEN they graded it, or at its current market value????
They give you the difference between what you paid for it and current market value. Of course PCGS determines what exactly that current market value is. But there's nothing quite like an actual example to illustrate - start reading at the 2nd paragraph - Click Here
I'll agree with Doug...some folks buy the slab and not the coin. The older PCGS slabs have been proven on many occasions to allow artificial toning to occur, many threads on this subject here and elsewhere.
I do know of one transaction, an MS-70 Lincoln, I believe, that they bought back because it had changed in the salb. they paid full market value for it when it came up for auction.
Frank - read the link I posted. When the current bid plus juice was $58,000 and PCGS paid $40,000 - that hardly seems like fair market value to me. And by the way, no the coin did not change in the slab. It was like that from day one.
