Keep it or Return it

Why else would I have bid that much on that coin?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

It is a PL coin. Bid what you are willing to pay. If he advertised it as a proof, that was wrong, but anyone that knows Morgan Dollars would know that.

 

That is the assumption in the OP's question and poll, isn't it - that you bought the coin in the first place? Otherwise, there would be no decision to make about returning it. Does that automatically make you an idiot? And if it does, does that make this whole discussion somewhat pointless?

 

Yes, and yes. LOL

 

Here, here. Don't deal with people like this and you won't have problems.

 

Lol just like every other dubious seller on Ebay trying to drum up business by tricking a few rubes into over paying for x,y or z hidden treasure, grand dads collection, unsearched rolls, etc. If you truly even considered that sentence was the truth, especially after the sellers name, number of sales and of what items being sold. Perhaps your the type of person the seller is banking to bid, which is either naive or entirely too trusting.

 

Agreed! LOL!

 

You mean someone searched all those unsearched rolls? Next thing you'll tell me that they handpicked which coins to place at the ends of the rolls. I always thought it was kind of funny that there were so many unsearched cent rolls showing the obverse of a 1909 on one end and/or the reverse of a VDB on the other end.

 

Well, maybe it's just me, but when I read.....

"We are in the process of selling a great uncle's and his brothers very large estate & coin collection and there is something for everyone."

I start to smell something funky in the air and move along....


Does he have unsearched wheat rolls too?

 

He's been selling "uncle's" coins now for about 2 years.

 

The coin removal police is actually very standard and necessary and employed by a lot of dealers, it's not unique to eBay. It's there to prove that is what was bought from there. Unless you're going to 4 hour show grade a coin sending coins to grading often needs to be prearranged as well due to the time periods involved. Only eBay tries to push these insane unrealistic return windows where buys can own things for long periods of time and then just return it like it was a trinket from Costco.

And no my response has nothing to do with that listing and yes I know some people may have better return policies with dealers they have done a lot of business with over a long period of time, but if someone just walked in off the street they wouldn't get that same leeway

 

This is nothing more or less than another fine example of why the "deal mentality" is so dangerous and damaging to this hobby as a whole. Obviously the bidders, or at least those who took the listing to this level, are not serious about their hobby. Perhaps they're simply of the "I don't pay retail" type of schmo, but equally as likely they're simply of the type that feels they're either entitled, or smarter than those who have invested years of their lives into educating themselves, or are maybe driven by that deep desire to make an easy buck by sending to the plastic factory. Just think of how often on this very forum we have people show up, and without the first clue, want to know how they can make money from coins, or refuse to believe whatever isn't in their interest?

This is reality, folks, and allowing such people to wiggle out of their poor decisions accomplishes nothing other than telling them it's okay to be foolish, stupid, or simply to blame others for their own failings/shortcomings. It is literally rewarding poor decisions, bad behavior, and expands the ever-growing ignorance that is a cancer upon most every aspect of this hobby today. The truly unfortunate thing is that some who do not fit the above descriptions also fall prey, but is to be expected in a society where blame is only to be shouldered by the other guy. If only it was as cut and dry and some seem to think....


Personal accountability... RIP.

 

And most coin dealers will include actual photos of the coin only and then seal the coin usually in a flip not a 2x2 so a buyer is getting a clear photo and can see all hairlines, etc. But most do not have a standard policy of a coin being 'unreturnable' if sent to a 3rd party grader and it comes back as not what it was sold as. Such as the coin at hand being sold as proof and comes back as MS, or sold as uncirc and it coming back cleaned, etc. But I certainly support no returns if it's because a buyer is just unhappy with how the coin graded. Unless a dealer guaranteed a certain result which isn't very common anyway. Really though it doesn't matter what the guy puts in his listing as Ebay will force the return no matter what he thinks his policy means whether the coin is removed or not.

Though I do agree with you about a policy being necessary it's just that they don't really mean anything on Ebay for one. And two if a dealer has such a policy they should be posting clear coin only photos as well and not photos with a coin in 2x2 which can hide all sorts of problems. I mean yes a buyer could get the coin look at it and then return it for the problems but again especially on Ebay, Ebay is going to force the seller to pay return shipping costs. So why not present the coin fairly and avoid return problems later.

Unless of course you're fishing for a rube or someone who doesn't know any better hoping they don't notice. And of course getting higher auction bids to begin with because flaws get hidden as the mylar obscures the true surfaces a bit doesn't hurt when profit above all else may be ones motives.

 

I have to wholeheartedly agree regarding the holder issue alone. As you stated, it is a longstanding norm, and for very good reason. Anyone who has ever sold a coin, had the buyer screw around with it or simply drop/damage it, and then demand a return will surely understand why. Ideally, buyers should be able to remove a coin from its holder for proper viewing, but as with many things in life, the abuses of a few ruin it for the majority.

I also agree regarding the ridiculous return windows pressed by eBay that are also often expected to be followed outside the venue. No honest buyer with a clue should need more than a few days tops. The main thing accomplished by such a window is to promote abuse imo.

There's nothing wrong with using a 2x2 after properly imaging the coin outside of it (although with dollars I think it preferable to use a 2.5x2.5 with a larger window size for what should be obvious reasons) but this aside I agree.

The "unreturnable" thing? Absolutely... at least as written. If a buyer wishes to submit a coin they're interested in purchasing, and doesn't wish to accept the obvious associated risks of doing so, the onus is on them to speak to the seller beforehand. More often than not, at least with honorable sellers, and as long as buyer expectations are reasonable, it isn't likely to be a great problem.

 

I would cheerfully have bid that much for that coin. There are known, unique, and easily-found die markers exclusive to the Proof issue of 1884, and I'd have known within ten seconds of receiving it whether it was a genuine Proof or not. If it's not, I have a slam-dunk SNAD case provable by published information to force a return. If it is, I just got a Proof for half of market or better. Furthermore, knowing coin imaging I can discount much of the darker "marks" on the cheek, and MS65DMPL is also a moneymaker at the sale price.

 

I should have clarified that I was referring to the coin of this thread topic not just any coin being submitted and then returned if the buyer wasn't happy with the grade or outcome (barring any pre stated guarantee of the seller of course of a specific outcome). More of an unknowing buyer buys a coin as proof, submits it and it comes back as as MS. Or buys a coin sold as uncirc and it comes back cleaned, etc.

 

Theoretically no, but practically they do. Without a long standing/good relationship how many do you think would accept that the coin was the one they sold a random buyer, they would just assume a switch has been made.

It doesn't, but that is also one reason why in my opinion high end classic coins are getting harder to find on there from anyone but the major sellers who get treated better by eBay.

No only abuse, but basically gets sellers to front the inventory costs for others. If they offer the insane window eBay is trying to get them too that is more than enough time to shop it around and if they can't make money return it.

 

An individual who throws a 4-digit sum of money at something they cannot make absolute determination about on their own skills deserves what they get.

 

I disagree. The buyer is the lesser of the 2 evils when it comes to this seller.
Besides, the pics are not very good. Perhaps the buyer needs to see it in-hand before their "absolute determination" can be made.

 

Someone asked, what is this coin worth? $250 ish?
The difference between proof, and proof like can be as much as $2000.
So perhaps for $1200 he thought he was getting a deal.
Here are the bids, I was looking for a shill bid pattern, but you need to see the bidders (not the actual names, you know what I mean.)

private listing - bidders' identities protected $1,205.00 27 Oct 2017 at 7:22:17PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $1,180.00 23 Oct 2017 at 8:31:26PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $1,150.00 27 Oct 2017 at 1:51:56PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $1,100.00 27 Oct 2017 at 1:51:43PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $1,050.00 27 Oct 2017 at 1:51:36PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $950.00 27 Oct 2017 at 1:51:26PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $850.00 27 Oct 2017 at 1:51:21PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $750.00 27 Oct 2017 at 1:51:15PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $500.00 27 Oct 2017 at 1:51:04PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $350.00 27 Oct 2017 at 12:28:26PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $325.00 18 Oct 2017 at 7:36:51PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $300.00 18 Oct 2017 at 1:56:07PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $248.00 18 Oct 2017 at 1:54:38PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $200.00 18 Oct 2017 at 1:26:53PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $128.00 18 Oct 2017 at 12:13:56PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $100.00 18 Oct 2017 at 1:26:47PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $60.00 18 Oct 2017 at 1:26:22PM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $40.00 18 Oct 2017 at 11:39:57AM PDT
private listing - bidders' identities protected $28.00 17 Oct 2017 at 8:39:41PM PDT
Starting Price $9.95 17 Oct 2017 at 7:22:22PM PDT