The 10K+ club

For me, price does not necessarily result in more enjoyment. There is a correlation that some of my favorite coins are among my more expensive but I get more day-to-day enjoyment out of an 8 reales and two sestertii on my desk that I allow myself to regularly handle than the high-grade aurei which are locked away.

In some cases, high price ends up reducing the sentimental value just because of the potential opportunity cost. When I received an offer I couldn't refuse on my Eid Mar, I accepted it knowing I could find another as it isn't a terribly rare type and that I could put the funds to better use for some truly "irreplaceable" coins. I've declined offers which were proportionally higher on less expensive coins just because I am more attached to them.

But overall, nothing beats sentimental value: the bust half dollar my grandmother gave me years ago is always the first coin back in the safety deposit box for maximum protection, as is my first ancient coin which my mother bought for $40 and is worth (on a good day) $0.25.

There are different types of enjoyment when it comes to coins and while there are undoubtedly some people out just for the investment, I think those who post on coin forums are ones who have definitively caught "the bug" and that the bug applies equally regardless of average price level.

 

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I agree, as I caught the "Bug" when I was ten! Now, I am selling my real bug collection to purchase more beautifull coins....which means ones struck before 1918. However there are exceptions like my 1931 Yugoslavia AV 4 Dukaten/ 1928 St/ Gaudens Double Eagle My purpose for collecting/ is the joy it brings....

 

Question: When you're browsing ancient coins online, or looking through a printed catalog, or at a coin show looking through a dealer's stock, what's the first thing you look at?

Of course, the coin itself. What's on the obverse? Is it of the type I collect or would like to collect? What does the reverse look like? You're examining all aspects of the coin itself.

Now, what's the second thing you look at? Most likely, the written description (if there is one) that describes the coin. Maybe you've overlooked some aspect of the coin that's included in its description. Does it correlate with what I know about these coins? Is there information that's missing, etc.

So, at best, the third thing you look at is the coin's price. If you're interested in the coin, you want to know the asking price. If not interested, you may be curious about the price but it doesn't really matter since, well, you're not interested in it.

I wonder... have you ever really bought a coin about which you don't care, solely for investment purposes -- i.e., because it will keep escalating in price? If so how many?

My impression from those who post on this site is that they buy coins that interest them and they think they'll enjoy owning. This does not conflict with the advice to "buy the best quality coin you can afford within your budget" because you'll probably be happier with it. Price is a consideration only to the extent that the coin you want is within your budget.

For example, if you want a Sikyon Chimaera stater that has the lion's serpent tail completely shown on the obverse, you'll pay a premium. If you're not going to enjoy this coin without the serpent tail completely shown, then you shouldn't buy it. Does this mean it's a better investment than such coins that are less complete? Of course, but so what? Does this mean you'll enjoy the coin more because it cost more? Of course not -- it cost more because of its condition and lower availability; you'll enjoy it more because completeness matters to you.

From my perspective, the issues continually raised about expensive vs. less expensive coins, investment quality vs. non-investment quality, are pretty much irrelevant and even a bit forced, at least as it applies to the types of collectors who post here. While I personally might have some disdain for collectors solely interested in ancient coins as an investment, I really don't see those collectors here.

If other collectors enjoy seeing ancient coins in the $10K+ category (in this thread), then I'm all for continuing it. If not, this thread will fade out and not be useful as a reference or simply for enjoyment in the future. But let's get past the seemingly endless back-and-forth intimations that collectors who buy and post such coins on this site are "really" just investors and not genuine collectors.

 

Well said @IdesOfMarch01 . I am at the lower end of the scale than you are, with the Cleo VII I posted being one of my more pricey ancients. I collect because of the history of the coin, what it is, and to force me to take more interest in that history.

I simply object to those who talk about investment value of coins because of two things:

1. There is absolutely no guarantee they are going to continue to appreciate, and
2. There is a MASSIVE buy/sell spread and incomplete market. If you buy a stock or a bond, its a tiny little spread and everyone pays about the same price. You just showed a coin that sold before your purchase for twice as much as you paid. That is a massive risk for heirs to take, that they may or may not find two buyers willing to pay as much as you.

So, I never begrudge anyone his/her coins, I am not jealous of those who can afford to buy pricier coins than I am. I only ever comment that coins are NOT really sound investments your heirs can rely on. Additionally, I find dealers the main ones pushing the idea of coins as "investments", and this mainly to get their clients to pay more than they can afford on a hobby. I just bought a group lot of coins with prices the previous owner paid for them. I think I paid about 25% of what that collector paid.

My view, and it may be silly, is I only buy coins with money I could drop on the sidewalk and walk away from and not affect my lifestyle, or my family's. If this is true, then I can sleep well enjoying my coins and not worrying if my heirs keep them, sell them, or what price they sell them for. If I want to spend $1000 on a coin, I only do so if I can get $1000 worth of entertainment from owning it. If I accomplish this, then whatever my heirs get for the coin is simply a bonus, since I have "consumed" the purchase price as enjoyment.

Having said that, I love looking at coins from those more fortunate than most of us. Hats off to you!

 

Well stated @AncientJoe , @IdesOfMarch01 , and @medoraman . I focus on critical junctures in Human History and those placemarkers (mainly coins) that allow me to remotely touch those times.

Although I enjoy having my coins gently worn (circulation / actually touched by several people from those times), I can appreciate and, now, better understand having a pristine condition as a focus. I see that possessing the coin exactly as it was minted as a clear communication of what the Celator, Moneyer, and/or Issuing Authority was communicating through the Art of that Coin.

 

Yes to that. I also enjoy looking at expensive cars and even tour open houses that I could not afford.
I could look up coins in this price category in auction archives, but I really like the 'metadata' that people post on CT and the discussions that ensue.

 

Is not aincient, so I hope you don't mind, but here's a +10K gift from my boss a few years ago for five years with the company.

 

I would like to continue the thread even though I have nothing to share. I LOVE the near flawless beauty of the coins at this price level. And I'm always interested in the reasons why anyone purchases the coins they do---beyond just high value. Personally, eye-appeal, fascinating devices and historical context followed by other areas of numismatic interest drive my purchases...and the ability or willingness to spend what may be required within my relatively modest budget

 

Wow! That's a stunning five year anniversary gift. Is a 1794 $1 in the cards for a 10 year anniversary?

 

Wow! Do you work with coins for a living or does your boss know that you collect coins?

 

I seriously doubt that, but I make ten years this month.

He also collects, but more as investments. He has a nearly complete set of Stella's including a couple of the aluminum patterns. We generally never talk about business when we get together, almost always talk about coins and look through auction catalogs for pieces that he can add. He's done really well investing actually. Buying st the right time at the right price works well when it comes to the really high end pieces.

 

Wow, he must be doing something right if he can afford those! Have you bought anything recently from Cohen & Sons? I think we talked about this before.

 

He opens a process engineering firm and dozens of patents (three are my designs, but he owns the patents). Safe to say that he's doing VERY well. He recently bought a summer home on 600 acres of land in north Mississippi, but didn't like that there was a house in his view from his rooftop deck. He purchased the house and moved it just so he would have a better view. Rich guy problems, the struggle is real.

The last time that I purchased anything from Cohen & Sons is when I was stuck downtown on federal jury duty. That lunch break cost me almost 9k for a half cent proof. I bought a house and car recently and the price of oil remains low, so my coin buying has come to a temporary screeching halt, but I'll be back on it as soon as I get my savings back up a bit.

 

I would definitely like to keep this thread going, and to have others post their captures within this Club. Personally, I have capped myself under $3k / purchase so that I do not go APE in bidding or capturing coins for my focus. I figure that range enables me to capture 99% of what I enjoy (and my tastes fall within some odd historical collecting niches)... Besides, with my acceptance of circulation wear, I should be able to keep myself under that cap...

Personally I hope folks keep those posts to the Ancients area as this is the Ancients Forum. I do appreciate the previous non-Ancients posts as I collected them for years. However, like many of us Ancients Collectors, we are anxious to see some super Ancient Coins!

Please do not be shy, as there are many of us looking to see them.

Best,
Brian

 

I was fortunate to find this Caligula denarius about a year after I started collecting ancients. I especially like the reverse portrait of Augustus, and the smallish letters on the reverse legend are very elegantly engraved, allowing for a large portrait area. The toning is also quite nice, which is not well captured by the photo.



GAIUS (CALIGULA)
AR Denarius (3.68 g.) Lugdunum 37 - 38 A.D. RIC 16
C CAESAR AVG GERM P M TR POT laureate head of Caligula right.
Obv. DIVVS AVG PATER PATRIAE radiate head of Divus Augustus right

Purchased at Triton XII in 1/07/2009 for approx. $11,000 including buyer's and other fees.

GENERAL NOTE FOR MY FUTURE POSTS IN THIS THREAD: With the exception of nine coins purchased through my dealer either from his inventory or private sellers, all of my coins that fall into this category can be found readily on ACSEARCH or other search engines. The all-in cost of the coin is included only for convenience and/or the arithmetically challenged.

 

Here is another one of mine....
Imperial Rome
AV Aureus ND Rome Mint/ struck 286AD
Diocletianus
CNG Triton V
One of very few coins that CNG graded FDC