20 centime purchase from a scrap bin..?

Hi,

I am trying to establish the origin of this coin

Looking through Celtic coinage i found some similar.

Also maybe Merovingian?

Some of the African coinage from the Vandal kingdom looks similar.

It put a smile on my local dealers face however he said he had never seen one before..

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

The lack of legends is what slowing me down..

15mm x 1mm. 1.485 gram.

 

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PIXTILOS portrait here is the closest I can find but its not perfect.

CARNUTES (Région de la Beauce) Bronze PIXTILOS classe VII au cavalier

 

It's a barbaric imitation of a 3 emperors reverse of Honorius or Arcadius. Here is my official issue.

The question is whether yours is contemporary or modern.

 

Ok thank you very much. Have you seen a barbaric copy of this coin before?

 

The dealer today is 35 year numismatist selling many lots of ancient coins.

He did mention towards the end of the Roman era rival empires copied the coinage and used similar designs.( I didnt understand everything he said so I left that information out to avoid confusion) But its exactly that. He said to me I can confirm its old. He studied the coin with a loupe.
but couldn't id the coin on the spot.
He was interested by it and he said to send him some pictures and he offered to research it for me.
I trust his judgment its contemporary considering he held it in his hands.

 

I have not as they are typically one offs, but I do not specialize in these either. Imitations from this time are common.

 

Ok thanks. Have you any advice how to know for sure its not a modern imitation?
If potentially it is a unique coin and genuine. Would it be worth having the coin appraised?

 

He said the coin is a fake.

 

Thanks for your reply. Sorry who said its a fake? above I wrote the coin is 1mm. One side of the coin less than half that. It is very thin down one side. Not sure if that changes anything.

 

"Barbaric imitation."
contemporary counterfeit or modern counterfeit

 

I don't know if it is modern, if you like the coin show it to a local dealer that is knowledgeable on these or send it off for authentication.

 

Ok I see. When I said genuine I was referring to a genuine contemporary imitation.

 

A genuine fake. As opposed to a fake fake.

 

Ancient "barbarous" imitations like this aren't "fakes" even in the narrow sense you're using the term. They weren't intended to deceive anyone.

Phil Davis

 

I found one coin with the three emperors which is 15.6 mm and 1.878g. I cant seem to find the same die combination in the known barbaric coins.
Whats interesting about the 3 emperors reverse is Theodosius II, Arcadius' son, is the smaller junior emperor in the center. On my coin the figure in the middle is the tallest. My example is 0.4 gram lighter. However only 0.6 of a millimeter smaller without the legends.

 

You probably have the only one in existence. Does that make it valuable - not really, welcome to ancients. @Victor_Clark has a very informative page that you need to read
http://www.constantinethegreatcoins.com/barb2/

 

Thanks, very interesting.

 

Not my terminology. Just explaining the what the other poster said.
Leave me out of it.

 

The fact my coin has no star and the coin depicts Theodosius II as the larger of the three emperors is very interesting to me and confirms this is no imitation designed to deceive anyone. Considering; In January 402 Theodosius II was proclaimed co-Augustus by his father, thus becoming the youngest person ever to bear this title in Roman history. (And I assume the smallest person?)

So to change the most significant story telling part of the coin for me its sure the coin was never designed to fool anyone.
Here is a possible theory to explain the coin I have;

Theodosius' increasing interest in Christianity, fuelled by the influence of Pulcheria, led him to go to war against the Sassanids (421–422), who were persecuting Christians; the war ended in a stalemate, when the Romans were forced to accept peace as the Huns menaced Constantinople.[11]

For me the most significant aspect of this coin is on the original issue the emperor heads is somewhat rounded and proportionate. Where as on my coin the head seems somewhat elongated..

Artificial cranial deformation


Artificial cranial deformation of theAlchon Huns, possible relatives of the European Huns, as seen on a portrait of king Khingila c. 430 – 490 CE.[74]


Artificial cranial deformation was practiced by the Huns and sometimes by tribes under their influence.[75][76][77][78] Artificial cranial deformation of the circular type can be used to trace the route that the Huns took from north China to the Central Asian steppes and subsequently to the southern Russian steppes.[79] The people who practiced annular type artificial cranial deformation in Central Asia were Yuezhi/Kushans.[80][81][82]

Some artificially deformed crania from the 5th–6th Century AD have been found in Northeastern Hungary and elsewhere in Western Europe. None of them have any Mongoloid features and all the skulls appear Europoid; these skulls may have belonged to Germanic or other subject groups whose parents wished to elevate their status by following a custom introduced by the Huns.[35]

The Huns were classed as a barbaric tribe?
Maybe it was Hun tribe who was inspired by the 3 emperor coin and made some coins based on this design with the cranial deformation?

In short is mine potentially a Hun tribe issue?

 

The fact; Theodosius II was proclaimed co-Augustus by his father, thus becoming the youngest person ever to bear this title in Roman history. For me make the 3 emperor coin quite significant IMO. To find a barbaric version of the same coin lacking the vital detail in-fact showing the opposite makes this very interesting indeed.