Hi, I need help with this tetradrachm. It is from the same dies as this one sold by CNG. (Same damaged A on the reverse) https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=130542 Weight is 17.03 g Your help is very much appreciated. Steven
Despite all efforts to become better at authenticating coins from photos or in-hand, I probably incorrectly assess at least one out of every four I offer opinions on....but I see nothing to suggest it isn't genuine and I hope I'm correct
I'm going to go against the tide on this one, but I don't like the patina and can only say it looks off to me without finding other faults. This may be the most counterfeited coin in the ancient world? Although very similar to the $2300 CNG coin it is not an exact match, notably the theta. To see how far counterfeits of these have come here is just one example, there are dozens more like it. http://www.forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=bkAIw6yYolM=
The first question is how/why was a genuine coin that valuable being sold in a venue that you feel the need to second guess by asking on Coin Talk. If it came from a responsible and knowledgeable seller, it would be worth sending off for certification or accepting on the word of that seller if and only if they really are responsible and knowledgeable. If it came from a flea market or a dealer who mostly handles US commons, it may not be worth the postage and fees. In that case, you could show it around at a show and see if you get offers or laughs.
It is about the coin and not the dealer. A fake will not become genuine only because it was sold by a reputable auction house or dealer. And sometimes even fake sellers mix some worn authentic coins to their offer, too. I do not care who sold it I only care how it looks in hand! You buy the coin and not the dealer There are and were even much more obvious fakes for sale by reputable auction houses or dealer. I am confident that it is a die match to the CNG specimen, there will be always some minor differences due to striking and the dies will wear with usage and die flaws and breaks etc will appear (so coins from the same dies, which were struck at a different die state will show some differences, too). (There is possibly a die shift/slippage on the last two letters of the CNG specimen, picture is to bad to tell for sure) The CNG coin is possibly authentic not possibe to tell form this low resolution picture. My coin is a very obvious fake even in pictures, I only wanted to see if others here will know why it is fake, too. I posted it under another nick, because I feared that some would realize, that it must be fake because I do collect fakes and becuse I am only interested in fakes I apologize for that and the weight is actually 18g+ (too heavy should be about 17,3g) but with the correct weight no one would actually care for the picture and fakes from these dies (they are transfer die fakes) exist with correct weight see for example the ACR fake https://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotv...&Lot=131&Val=e9959876310175b00c78820b723888ad ACR Auctions > Auction 37 Auction date: 19 September 2017 Lot number: 131 The toning is artificial but it looks different in hand than on pictures and yes you will not find such a toning on authentic coins but the toning is not that bad. (David was correct.) David referred to the fake in forgery network, the fake on forgery network is from "Galvano Boys" they used electrotypes of the Brithish museum and recutted details (so recutted transfer dies). So you thought in the right direction, the problem of this "Galvano Boys" fakes were that the details were too soft even on protected areas, there will be always a detail loss and transfer errors in transfer dies and they often do recut details wrong for example the dotted border (different size, number and position). There is a very obvious problem on these fakes, which I do not understand. On the reverse there is always a "incuse square" and some higher areas outside the incuse square. Some of this higher areas have been artificially flatted on my and the ACR fake. (last picture) The flan itself does not look good, the details especially the owl on the reverse are very good. If you neglect the weight, then I daresay that my fake is better and more convincing than the ACR fake sold (19 September 2017). It is not that easy to get good fakes, the really good fakes will be directly placed at auctions, the very bad fakes will be sold at ebay (restbazar etc.). Why do I post this, it seems like this fake (if it would have correct weight), would have fooled some here and such a fake fooled ACR and the buyer. I bought it in a lot with another tetradrachm and a bronze fake. The bronze fake is very deceptive and should fool many auction houses and collectors. The tetradrachms are not really deceptive
Very interesting. Can you post the bronze fake? Many of us here are interested in learning about fakes and how to detect them. John
I think this is because the transfer reverse die used is not correct. Real Athenian owls of this period were used with a square shaped reverse punch that was generally smaller than the flans. The reverse die created by the forgers was larger and was a transfer of the entire reverse of the coin including the raised area which was never actually touched by the original reverse die. This is one example of a common class of mistakes made by forgers creating transfer dies that, fortunately for collectors, even very skilled forgers occasionally overlook.
Duplicate membership, even though one may think it is for a good reason to do so, is an offense penalty of banning. Jim
