2 different coins, two different questions

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Hiddendragon, Sep 29, 2017.

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  1. Hiddendragon

    Hiddendragon World coin collector

    First off, I have this Portuguese 50 centavos coin. On the bottom of the 50 centavos side there's a little bit of metal that looks out of place. When I first saw it I thought it was from jewelry, but the metal seems to perfectly match the rest of the coin, it isn't raised or uneven at all, and I didn't see any edge damage or damage on the other side. Do you think this is from jewelry or is it a "cud" example or some similar issue? 1926 portugal 50 centavos.jpg

    Next I have a 1980 New Zealand 1 dollar coin. There is a copper nickel version and a silver version for this date. The seller had it listed as the silver version, and I put it a really low bid just for fun and ended up winning it. When I got it, I really didn't think it looked like silver, but a magnet doesn't stick to it. I don't have a scale to weigh it with, but the seller gave what they said was the weight and it matches the silver coin. Krause doesn't list the weight for the copper nickel version. If it was the copper nickel version would a magnet stick to it or not necessarily? Any other way I can identify if it is silver without a scale? 1980 new zealand 1 dollar.jpg
     
    Hiddendragon, Sep 29, 2017
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  3. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Cucumbor, Sep 29, 2017
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  4. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    #1: My first impression was that I liked the contrasting two-tone appearance on the Portuguese 50-centavos piece. That is what I refer to as a "Circulation Cameo", or "CircCam" for short. I'm a fan of that look, and appealing copper and bronze CircCams are less often seen than silver ones. My second impression was that the lettering looked "off", and had a bit of that hinky "Made in China" appearance to me. It briefly twitched the needle on my built-in "Fake-o-Meter", but upon further examination I think no, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just the font the mint used, and the wear, probably. I suppose that could be a cud there, or some kind of die crack. Do I see another thin crack around 8:00-9:00 on the reverse, or is that a tiny hair or fiber on the coin? It's about a $2 piece in that grade (Fine-ish), but so what. I like it.

    #2: That looks like a copper-nickel coin to me. The color does not look like a silver coin would. A magnet wouldn't be of any use, as neither copper-nickel alloys nor silver will stick to one. Some pure nickel coins are magnetic, but most so-called "nickel" coins are alloyed with copper (for example, our USA 5-cent "nickels" are actually 75% copper and only 25% nickel, despite the name).
     
    lordmarcovan, Sep 29, 2017
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  5. Hiddendragon

    Hiddendragon World coin collector

    I definitely don't think the first coin is fake, and I agree I do like this design a lot. Portuguese coins from the 1920s are very appealing in my opinion.

    I know that the silver New Zealand dollar is supposed to be proof. At first I was thinking that maybe proof coins of that era didn't look the same as moderns, but I guess I do have a lot of proofs from the 70s with that modern proof look. This could explain why no one else bid on a $20 coin for $4.
     
    Hiddendragon, Sep 29, 2017
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  6. Muzyck

    Muzyck Rabbits!

    That New Zealand coin does not look like the proof strike to me.
     
    Muzyck, Sep 29, 2017
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  7. sakata

    sakata Devil's Advocate

    Do you have another coin of the same weight? You can easily compare your coin to the known one.
     
    sakata, Sep 29, 2017
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  8. Steve66

    Steve66 Coin People

    I think your New Zealand coin is the CN version.
    Here is a bad pic of the of the proof I have.

    nz5.JPG nz6.JPG
     
    Steve66, Sep 29, 2017
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  9. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I think @Lunchbox John would like that Portuguese piece. He's just beginning to casually play around with CircCam World coins, as a sideline to his US coins. I'll let him post the Napoleon III French 5c he just bought from me. It's another inexpensive coin with a nice look. He also has a German Imperial 5-pfennig that is a non-silver CircCam. Cool-but-cheap coins are fun.
     
    lordmarcovan, Sep 29, 2017
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  10. Hiddendragon

    Hiddendragon World coin collector

    Hiddendragon, Sep 29, 2017
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  11. Steve66

    Steve66 Coin People

    Yours is still a nice coin and you got it pretty cheap.
     
    Steve66, Sep 29, 2017
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  12. Hiddendragon

    Hiddendragon World coin collector

    It is, but I already had one (I have the complete series of copper nickel New Zealand dollar coins) so I bought it to get something I didn't have already.
     
    Hiddendragon, Sep 30, 2017
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  13. jlblonde

    jlblonde Señor Member

    Here's one for comparison:

    Portugal - 50 Centavos - 1926.jpg

    I'm pretty sure mein is not a SirCam-Elot.
     
    jlblonde, Sep 30, 2017
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  14. jlblonde

    jlblonde Señor Member

    Chris,
    Your coin seems to be missing some background detail. Lordmarcovan may be entirely right. I had the same issue with this piece. At the time I posted my questions about this coin no one had a clear answer. Now I think I have mein answer.

    Austria - 10 Kreuzer - 1872 - Obv 2.jpg Austria - 10 Kreuzer - 1872 - Rev 2.jpg
    Austria - 10 Kreuzer - 1872 - Obv 1.jpg Austria - 10 Kreuzer - 1872 - Rev 1.jpg
     
    jlblonde, Sep 30, 2017
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  15. jlblonde

    jlblonde Señor Member

    Also, your Portuguese coin looks brass instead of bronze.
     
    jlblonde, Sep 30, 2017
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  16. Hiddendragon

    Hiddendragon World coin collector

    It seems odd for it to be a fake though. It's not a valuable coin and even at the time it was issued I don't think it was a lot of money. There are other dates in this series that are worth a lot of money. Someone who wanted to fake one would do those I'd think.
     
    Hiddendragon, Sep 30, 2017
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  17. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I agree. This Portuguese 50c does seem an odd coin to fake, though that has not stopped the Chinese workshops from creating such things (i.e., copies of coin types that would be worth little more than the replicas themselves).

    However, though @Hiddendragon's coin initially looked a tiny bit "off" to me, mostly due to the font, I did change my mind and do now consider it to be authentic. I will add that I was unfamiliar with this specific type and denomination, though I do have some familiarity with other Portuguese types of this era, and like the designs very much. In fact, since some are so affordable in high grade, I think I might even add one to my Eclectic Box; who knows?

    @jlblonde - I beg to differ - methinks thy coin doth indeed have a little bit of CircCam contrast goin' on.

    PS- what was the issue with the Austro-Hungarian coins? Those look completely normal to me, though I'm seeing all this on a tiny cellphone screen at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
    lordmarcovan, Sep 30, 2017
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  18. josemartins

    josemartins Member

    Nothing wrong with the 50 centavos coin, the details are what you would expect in coin of this type in "fine" condition. "Cuds" and "die breaks" are very common on both the 50 centavos and 1 escudo aluminium-bronze (95% copper, 5% aluminium) coins, which were replaced in 1927 by a new type due to production problems.

    Jose
     
    josemartins, Oct 1, 2017
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  19. jlblonde

    jlblonde Señor Member

    Hiddendraggon's Portuguese 50c and my Austrian coin both seem to have missing details in the background. Just makes me wonder...
     
    jlblonde, Oct 2, 2017
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  20. jlblonde

    jlblonde Señor Member

    For comparison...

    Untitled-1 copy.jpg

    Untitled-2 copy.jpg
     
    jlblonde, Oct 2, 2017
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  21. Hiddendragon

    Hiddendragon World coin collector

    Hiddendragon, Oct 2, 2017
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