Just got this email from Centsles re: the new eBay listing policy. Thought it might interest some of you...
Good Thread AnemicOak. As much as we'd all like to see scammers like Abon out of the picture there are legit dealers that will be hurt. I actually emailed one of my favorites before the new rules took effect. The dealer I'm talking of sends lists to his customers upon request and that seems to work pretty well for him. I think a lot of the "good" sellers should look into setting up their own websites as well. Many people buy on the internet without EVER going to ebay. I've seen many big dealers list on ebay, get tired of it, and sell exclusively off of their sites. It can work. Ebay is not the answer to everything. More people need to realize that and I believe a lot of the serious collectors do.
There are several honest graders who are going to be hurt, SEGS comes to mind. They are very conservative in their grading.
Does anyone know whether EBay Canada has a modified rule allowing ICCS, which is the most respected TPG for Canadian coins?
Sadly, no. I just read about this in Coin World. It appears eBay and eBay.ca are going to have the exact same restrictions, thus ICCS will not be on the 'list' of approved graders, even in Canada.
That's a damn shame. So only U.S. companies are trusted to slab Canadian coins? That's kind of like sending a wino to France to judge wines.
Centsles is going to be hurt because they have been selling people overgraded junk for years on ebay. I do feel bad for PCI and SEGS. While they may not be the quality of the other top services, they are at least legitimate services that use the multiperson consensus method for grading. I know that Larry Briggs from SEGS was very angry about the ebay decision.
The eBay article states that will review and ad more grading services, but does not give a timeline. Great post by the way
Color me dumb, but the creation of this rule was to stop the abuse of selling over graded junk, counterfeit currency, and hopefully makes sellers be responsible in their description of coins. I do not think it was in order to single out any one coin grader, squeeze out the competition, or point the finger at any one company as a fraud. While there is a certain level of buyer beware in every sale, this shows eBay is making an attempt to be responsible. You would be ****ed if you went to Sears and purchased a Sony HDTV at top dollar, only to get home and find it is actually a Daewoo. No one would stand for it, and there would be a demand for money back. Just because eBay is online does not mean that there is a separate rule for conducting business. The companies that are going to be hurt are those that engage in scamming the unlearned. Others will eventually rise to the top, in the mean time they have to adjust their business model. Perhaps detailed pictures and a good description would go a long way in moving merchandise. If it is good, word will get out, if it is garbage (*cough* sgs *cough*) that will bear out also. Sorry for the soapbox dissertation.
I think people who believe in some of the second tier graders will still search them out and buy them, and I hope it slows down powersellers that prey on the weak.
These people are good typers, no question, but lousy readers, if this is indeed their interpretation. It doesn't imply sellers and collectors of the other graded coins as being fraudulent. The rule was initiated to stop those grading services who willfully overgraded coins to rip consumers off. Unless Centsles is doing this, I don't see how they can assume they are being called frauds in this. If I were a dealer of coins, I'd want to be as reputable as possible. Therefore, I wouldn't offer anything that is known to be overgraded to my customers. Sure, there may be a few smaller TPG's who are honest who are left out of the list, but they are the acception...not the rule. I can't see anyone who is actually "honest" complaining about this rule change. Guy~
RE: Slowing down the power sellers * SGS*, we'll see time will tell. Enough of us watch eBay daily, maybe we can check in to see if Abon is still averaging 4500 feedbacks a month. SGS has a cpl other sellers out there but in no way even close to the scale of Abon.
I won't color you dumb, but I would like to clarify something I've seen posted here many times. The new rules DO NOT "stop the abuse of selling over graded junk." In fact, these items can still be listed and bought. How they may be listed and how they may be described has changed. If these items were prohibited, then I would agree with you and others who have posted simililar comments. The changes only affect how a shopper searches for items, and how items are listed. If they honestly believed that the items were fraudulent, then the responsible thing to do would be to NOT permit them to be listed. This isn't the case. Yes, but this isn't the same type of misrepresentation, and the analogy doesn't work. No matter what slab a coin is in, it is an opinion, based on their set of guidelines. No one's opinion is more right than another, and no one's guidelines are the holy grail. While it might seem that I am saying that SGS should be permitted to slap junk in MS-70 slabs and sell them, that's not exactly the case. While I do believe that something is off there, I do NOT think that only 5 companies are able to accurately grade coins, and that these 5 companies should enjoy any special treatment.
I just checked this morning & there are only 23 coins on Ebay for auction with SGS in the title. Abon stil has over 1700 listings but not with SGS in the title. That is somewhat good news-
I may be wrong but in my book, eBay or anyone else cannot allow specific legitimate TPG's to be listed in auctions one way and other legitimate TPG's another! This is Anti-Trust in the worst form and has the appearance of favoritism! I know that they are trying to find ways to curtail the fraud and selling of overgraded coins and the use of non-TPG slabs but they need to rethink their strategy as the current strategy will end up costing them some very expensive litigation and maybe even damages. You can bet your booty that SEGS' and PCI's Lawyers are researching every angle of litigation and will be filling law suits in the very near future, unless eBay changes their' current rules regarding auctions and does something to undo the harm that they have already caused them! Frank
