1883 With Cents Nickel for grading.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by TypeCoin971793, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Bad pics through a flip. What are your objective opinions?

    IMG_0738.JPG IMG_0739.JPG
     
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  3. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    AU-53/55.
     
    Brett_in_Sacto likes this.
  4. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    It looks like a nice coin, with a weak strike, rev.
    But, I'd ditch the 10 Cent flip, for better, guesses.
     
  5. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Removing the coin voids the return, which is happening. I looked at it under a good light and noticed hairlines around the date.
     
  6. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

  7. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I'm between 58 and 63. Can't see the luster.
     
  8. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    The coin looks almost dead in these images.
     
    Santinidollar likes this.
  9. oz_in_ohio

    oz_in_ohio Active Member

    The hairlines are also at the back of the neck.... Personally i would place it as g/EF as the leaf on the left hand side of the bow on the reverse has not got all the fine lines like the other side has. The husk of corn on the right is better looking than the left... The corn kernels are completely wiped out on the left. I have even placed arrows pointing to the area...oio
    V nickel PP.jpg
    I have looked at it under a 10x loupe
     
  10. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    10x loupe do you know the seller?
    There is way to much luster on the coin for such a low grade. IMO
     
  11. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

  12. oz_in_ohio

    oz_in_ohio Active Member

    What about the wear on the corn where the arrows were placed??
    g/EF is just under AU...There is no way that coin with the corn husks removed can be AU...Lustre or not as it has visible wear.

    I am being realistic with my grade at g/EF and i think you are boosting it up to make the value more than it should be....
     
  13. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member


    Are you aware that your estimate of g/EF encompasses a very wide range of grades? G-4, G-6, VG-8, VG-10, F-12, F-15, VF-20, VF-25, VF-30, VF-35, EF-40 and EF-45?

    Also, keep in mind that it is very plausible that the loss of detail in the area you are pointing out is due to a weak strike due to the hardness of the material being struck and the die faces not being perfectly parallel to each other? It's more than possible for a coin to have this appearance and be MS with luster over the flat areas.
     
  14. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    Out of curiosity what would you grade this coin? VF? It has a lot of details missing in the hair and the eagles breast feathers, legs and arrows. Please don't take this as an attack, but rather a chance to acquire some education. That is the number one goal of this forum.

    1888-O-Morgan-Dollar-Obverse.jpg 1888-O-Morgan-Dollar-Reverse.jpg
     
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
  15. oz_in_ohio

    oz_in_ohio Active Member

    1 Tallons are gone
    2 Breast of feathers gone ( highest point )
    3 Eye of eagle visible
    4 beak of eagle visible
    5. Separation on arrows feathers visible
    6 Arrowheads pionty sharp and WOW!!!
    7 Eyelashes , lips and word liberty visible
    8 Veins in leaves visible

    Personally the toning i do not appreciate but that is just me.

    I also look at the points of the stars around the rim however i think some are rounded. As i am from Australia originally, we are very pedantic...Over there we are very very critical as we dont like to overgrade.... You can see 6 points of issue that are good and 2 are not so i would lean to g/VF to EF. This is mainly as the lustre is visible as well... No lustre, then VF it would be. The lines in the cheek i am not sure if that is in the metal or not so i will discard it. The rounding of the star points are taking it down for me.....I am no grading company and i do not do it for a living...However i do like to grade down so the buyer in the future will not be ripped off or scammed.... Grading companies to me mean nothing as it is only their opinions. Unfortunately people take them as gospel and the everyday long time collector with over 50 years in the hobby knows nothing like me. That is why i have given up with the highly graded items and only buy and sell cheap items.
    1 People can afford it
    2 The investors generally are a pain in the rear end
    3. If this is a hobby, then have things priced to be a hobby...

    I like to sell between $1 to $5 an item, leaning more to the lower price because of the amount of turnover i may get. I also like to bring the younger generation into the hobby but you people with the keys and high quality will just scare them away... I have already seen it back home in OZ...But people in general think if something is too cheap, it is no good.
     
  16. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    I'm glad you noticed those lines, those are actually a key feature to this coin. Those lines are called planchet striations. They were scratched into the long strip of silver during the finishing process as the strip of metal was pulled through a drawing bench to give the metal a final thickness. After this process the blanks are then punched out of the strips and then turned into planchets. Those streaks remain there until they are typically struck out of the metal by the immense pressure of the dies.

    This particular coin is an 1888-O Morgan, a fairly common date and also because it's from New Orleans, it suffers from a weak strike. In this case it is a very, very weak strike. If you were to examine this coin in hand, you would see luster covering the entire surface of both the obverse and reverse. It is a Mint State coin that did not circulate. All the high points that you would check for wear first did not strike up and look as though they have been worn away, but that is not the case for this coin.

    I know some people may not like the look of this coin, but to me it's a great learning piece. It's graded in a first generation ANA small white holder. It was graded at MS-63 which at the time it was graded, strike carried a much greater weight in the overall grade. Today, it might go MS-64 possible 65 as there are very few contact marks and it has booming luster. FYI the toning you see is common for these holders as the inserts reacted with a lot of the coins that are in the holders. I personally like it.

    So while this coin may have the details of a VF-EF coin, it is in fact uncirculated. :)

    I do appreciate you giving your analysis on this specimen and why you would grade it they way you do. To your credit, your are grading it from a static image.

    PS. Can you give me your breakdown on your g/EF? Are you simply referring to it as a good example of an EF? I only ask, because a lot of people will grade a coin VF/EF or VF-EF bridging the grades. I interpret your g/EF as in it would grade from Good or G-04 to EF or Extra Fine. Thanks in advance.
     
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  17. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    Here is the coin in the holder.

    1888-O-Morgan-Dollar-ANACS-MS-63-Slab-Front.jpg 1888-O-Morgan-Dollar-ANACS-MS-63-Slab-Back.jpg
     
  18. KSorbo

    KSorbo Well-Known Member

    I think a "good EF" puts it into the lower uncirculated grades on the other side of the pond.
     
  19. oz_in_ohio

    oz_in_ohio Active Member

    Yes you are correct.... However we dont have the numbers that you use...I will state the grades how we do it over our side of the pond..This grading is even stricter with banknotes...I am only from lowest to highest...You will also notice we have 4 grades in the middle of each and prices range accordingly...

    SPACE FILLER
    almost VG
    VG
    VG+
    Nice VG
    Good VG
    Almost Fine
    FINE
    Fine+
    Nice Fine
    Good Fine
    Almost Very Fine
    VERY FINE
    VF+
    Nice VF
    Good VF
    Almost Extra Fine
    EXTRA FINE
    EF+
    Nice EF
    Good EF
    Almost UNC
    UNC



    Lastly there is PROOF



    Like i have said before, any fool can grade up and have the coin gather dust in the shop or store, but a clever person would grade it a bit down so there is some meat left on the bone and the buyer can see they are getting a deal. On top of that , the item would be sold and their cash is in the business to buy more items with.

    I can go on but i dont think it is worth it.

    OIO
     
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
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