I've really been trying, surfing the Web looking at all those long cross pennies, the different legends, the crowns, the variations in the king's smile, etc.... but I just can't figure it out. I know it is the London Mint, and it is some Edward or another. Beyond that I am stumped. So I was wondering if a hammered penny person could help me I.D. this. Many thanks in advance! By the way, I got this by accident - it was in an eBay batch of worn Roman silver I got for $10.63 (for the batch). Although I'm not really a medieval collector, I find I really liked this ragged little thing...
Yeah, there is alot to these little things. Others here helped attribute mine a bit better. Edward I (1272 - 1307 A.D) AR Penny Class 10c O: EDW R ANGL DNS HYB, crowned facing bust. R: "/CIVI/TAS/CAN/TOR long cross pattée, with trefoil in each quarter. Canterbury mint 1.3g 19mm Spink 1410 North 1040
Obvious bifoliate crown, kings name abbreviated as “EDWAR”, thus pointing to classes 10-15. We can exclude class 12 (because of the crown) and 13 (because of the mintmark) immediately. The ‘E’ in the kings name is angular, thus eliminating class 10. The options we now have left therefore are Class 11, 14 or 15. The only thing to easily differentiate between these classes is the crown, and minor stylistic differences are what we have to look for. The one thing that immediately jumps out for me, are the two intermediate ornaments. They in no way resemble those of the fifteenth class, which are much more nicely formed. That leaves two classes; 14, which is not subdivided, and 11, which has four more sub classes. The main difference is the right ornament. On coins of class 14 they are simply stumps, while on class 11 the right one is still relatively toadstool-shaped. Yours is of the former type; class 14. The other details of this class also check out; high central fleur, pointed chin, and is that a small smile I see on that bust? Class 14 was minted around 1317-1319, which places it comfortably within the reign of Edward II. To be honest, I just love these Edwardian pennies, and I have a fair few myself. And $10.63 for the lot? Killer deal! Mika
Thank you so much Mika - I really appreciate the "line of thought" way you attributed this coin. When I started looking through the photos, I kept getting confused as whether or not the E was slanted or if the crown ornament was "toadstool-shaped" or not. Quite interesting that this is from Edward II's reign - rumor had it he died a most gruesome death...I'll spare the forum details. Again, thank you for sharing your expertise. Um, at the risk of imposing on you, there is one other hammered Edwardian penny in my collection that I am unsure of. It was sold to me many years ago as an Edward I...but I have no idea. It has a dark, brownish tone and was difficult to photograph, but here goes:
Not at all I am far from a true expert, but I just thoroughly enjoy this series. And wow, I totally dig that darkish patina it has! I am a big fan of it! And indeed, Edward II’s story sure isn’t a comedy… As for the identification; this one is far easier than the previous one. Star on breast -> Class 9. The tricky bit is the sub-class, for class 9 is divided into a couple, including some difficult muled classes. 9C is partly off the table, due to it being London mint. This class was only struck in Bury St. Edmunds, not London, but 9B obverse dies, muled with 9C reverse, are known (the same goes for 9C obverse combined with class 10 reverse). But one important thing to note is the shape of the letter “N”. Notice how it has these protruding lines at the top and bottom, and one side is place higher than the other? That is called a “pothook N”, and is a characteristic of class 9B. That also rules out a possible 9C mule, seeing as it is featured on both the obverse and reverse. 9B actually has another subdivision; 9B1 and 9B2. The difference between these classes is the right side-fleur. On your coin, precisely this area is quite worn (or is it because of the double strike?), but if my eyes don’t deceive me, I see the non-straight sided fleur of class 9B1. This class dates from around 1299-1301, comfortably in the reign of Edward I, so the original attribution was at least partially right. You don’t see coins with something on the breast too often (although they are by no means rare), and I find that double strike to be fascinating. Nice coin!
Wow. Again, I am much obliged, Mika. "Star on Breast" and the "pothook N" - it seems so obvious, now that you point it out and explain their significance (there's a Sherlock Holmes story where Holmes is chagrined when, after he explained his deductive skills, Watson says that it is all so "obvious."). Seriously, I am both grateful and impressed - you should teach a university numismatic attribution course (is there such a thing?). The sketchy and/or blank flips will be updated for both of these coins - and I am pleased to know I have both an Edward I and a II.
It was kind of a odd-ball batch of stuff - below is a photo of all four coins (eBay seller's photo). I was most interested in the Vespasian/Mars denarius, despite its unattractiveness (it does look a bit better in hand). The little Constantine II is actually pretty decent. Anyway, I was pretty happy with the batch (especially for the price), even more so now that I know what the English penny is, thanks to AnYangMan (Mika):
AnYangMan, I also appreciate you making your line of investigation clear. I enjoy the series although I struggle with class identification. As you were interested in the double-strike, I though that I would show you a coin that I only noticed this afternoon. It is curious that the die was rotated and doubled with only a little flattening of the central devices. 19mm and 1.38g.
