Aethelred Asks: Real or Fake?

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but before pronouncing judgment I wanted to run this coin by the august membership of this forum.

This coin is not mine, it belongs to a customer who brought it to me for an opinion. I have several concerns about this example, but the coin just didn't look right from the first glance.

It has a weight of 13.7g and is 24mm in diameter.

Any comments or opinions are welcome.

 

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Is the portrait bothering you? Because it's certainly bothering me.

 

Just getting into ancients, but that one just doesn't look right to me, almost art deco.

 

I don't know these since I don't collect them, but from first glance at the image it looks okay. I have no idea what the average weight/size should be. On second thought, just don't listen to me. Really though, what makes you question it? Just curious.

 

I do not like the unusual texture of the reverse fields, I wonder what is going on around the eagle's claws and look at the area between Ptolemy's ear and eye.

 

Compare the portrait on that coin to some portraits in these genuine coins. Look at the high amount of details on the diadems around his head in the authentic coins, vs the amateurish look of the diadem in your coin's portrait. Not to mention the facial features.

Look how fine the writing is on the genuine specimens vs the thick blocky writing on your reverse.

 

Supposed to be a thunderbolt in the claws right? Looks like a blob near the rim and then like it is scraped away some above. Similar scraping at bottom of bust on obv?

 

From acs

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2980287
I see similar flatness on the thunderbolt and neck of Ptolemy. It looks like the OP may be polished?

 

You posted coins struck during the reign of Ptolemy II,
his is from the reign of a later Ptolemy IX -XII?

 

It looks perfectly fine in the photo. Perhaps a bit overcleaned. Style is correct, edge correct, weight correct. This is a Ptolemy IX coin so you can't compare style against the Ptolemy I's posted by Sallent.

Barry Murphy.

 

He didn't say Ptolemy I? Ok, I must be going crazy because I swore he had. Never mind folks, don't listen to the crazy Cuban who is imagining he read things he didn't. Man, I'm eating crow now. How embarrassing.

Maybe it's time I get some sleep before I imagine something else.

 

Ding Ding! This coin is fine, but polished. I see this sometimes at coin shows, I usually tell them to hang on to them as a reminder not to do it to coins. I'm sure it can be toned down.

 

Looks fine to me, typical portrait for a later Ptolemy.

Edited: oops, the experts have already chimed in with that information

 

Very Nice Original Ptolemy IX tet, flat areas chin,neck,beneath eagle are OK, hairline crack on the obverse running
around the ear down into the neck, nothing to worry about.


flat areas:


hairline crack obverse:

 

Great thread. Solid learning experience for my newbie eyes.

 

The flow lines around the nose suggest that the original coin was struck. Are you concerned about what appear to be casting bubbles on the cheek just below the hair? I'm not sure what the explanation for these would be. Can anyone enlighten me?

 

That was one of the things that I don't like.

The consensus here seems to be that the coin is genuine at least, but given the heavy polishing (which I was concerned might have been done to hide signs of casting) I might just advise him to hold onto it as a keepsake of the ancient world.

 

What do you experts think of this little Miletos lion, .95g. It was only a few bucks on ebay although I have sworn off of ebay after browsing through so many forgery and fqke files. They have gotten too good to try for an amateur as myself. and there are many easily recognizable fakes. The edge looks OK but isn't that the "soapy" look of a cast. I have one thumbs up for it being genuine from a person on the Forum so far.

 

There is no 'on/off' in this matter. To me the photo is consistent with harsh scrubbing and chemical cleaning that has become so popular these days. Certainly such abuse could be used to mask signs of casting or other evils.

I do think it is a shame that we have so many poorly cleaned coins but skillful processing of good material costs a lot more than throwing junk in an acid bath. We buy such coins and encourage the sellers to offer up more and more. I can't say I see any reason to doubt the authenticity of the Miletos but I can't see any reason to buy it either. The Ptolemy that started this thread may look better when it tones down but the metal/detail lost to bulk scrubbing does not grow back.

There have been some huge finds of some coin types that get sorted into quality levels and sold in bulk. The Miletos has been available in quantity for decades now. There are a several others in the category (watch the end of Frank Robinson's sale lists for the current flavors). I should not have said not to buy this coin. I should have said don't pay $50 for a $5 one. Neither will be easy to resell since there are more than there are people who want them so pick one you plan to live with. The centering on this one is better than many so it is not the worst. Would giving these out to scouts working on a coin merit badge be a good idea? Anything that spreads the word about the hobby might be worth considering.

 

There is nothing wrong with the Miletos either. Its just corroded. If you say you only paid a few dollars its a good buy. I would expect that to retail $20-25 on a good day.