1800 Dime: Would not be surprised if you tell me it is a fake

I have seen a few postings here about coins people thought were fakes or counterfeits. Well, here is probably mine, and probably the biggest error i ever made in coin collecting. This is a 1800 dime i bought from a local dealer here. It was not cheap.
As i got more knowledgeable about US coins, and was actually able to compare with other pieces, i came to realize this one does not "look right". It is not in good condition (about good?), and it has has a very soft, washedßout apperance. It weighs 2.62 grams, (nominal weigth for dimes of this era is 2.70 grams). The diameter is 1.91 mm. So weigth and diameter both seem OK, but still something bothers me...... Probably because the dealer i bought it from was utlimately found out to have sold several manipulated US coins. Oh well.... i was young(er) back then.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Eduard

 

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I honestly don't know whether this coin is counterfeit or not, but I want to ask a question.

Do counterfeiter's actually go to great lengths to wear down a coin to Good Condition if they just made a priceless coin? Wouldn't they at least shoot for F or VF to maximize their profit?

I can understand why they wouldn't want an UNC or AU as the population on those is so small that it would be obvious, but I would think there are enough XF's out their so as to obscure the source of the fake coin. Buffing the coin all the way down to G or worse just cuts into the profits.

I'm just thinking out loud here and am curious as to what is more common with counterfeits.

 

I'm no expert by any means, and I don't think anyone could tell without looking at the actual coin for metal content, etc, but everything on the coin matches what it is susposed to have. It looks real, at least to my limited eye.

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH DONT HOLD THE COIN THAT WAY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

Anyways. It looks ok to me and if it were a fake its a pretty damn good one.

 

The wear looks really odd to me.
The rim wear is the most evident.
The little divots or pock-marks (air bubbles in the mold?) on the obverse makes me wonder if it was cast.
I can't make out the edge pic well enough to really have a better opinion on the cast thought.
I don't know much about these, but it does worry me.

 

Chill out. Its only G and acetone can take out the fingerprints. Lol.

Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly with rotobeast. The obverse pockmarks could be casting bubbles. But to counter that, the reeding on the edge seems rather even. Would a counterfeiter who casts coins well enough to make reeding even like that be dumb enough to leave casting bubbles on the obverse? I feel that, if the coin were in hand, the fabric would be a give away. If anyone gives an attribution for this piece, I'll tentatively say its genuine.

 

okay, here are my two cents.

1) The reverse seems to match the Breen-3151, comparing the 'cud' from teh last cloud over the eagle's wing.
2) The obverse seems to match the description of Breen-3151.

However, these are for a coin dated 1802.

So, who knows.

 

Would it be possible for you to take a closer pic of it?

 

One question, on the obverse, from about 6 o'clock to about 9 o'clock, what is there?
It looks kinda like reeding, but, that can't be.
So?

 

I wondered about that too.
It made me think it got pressed against something.
Is that area imprinted, Eduard ?

 

I am by far no expert on older US coins, but here's my take.

After 207 years, its hard to tell what's "natural" wear and what's not, at least from your pictures. I also am in the camp of "it just doesn't look right". You said the dealer was known to have sold some manipulated coins. The hair ribbon looks like it may have been tooled some. If it's a genuine coin, I'd say its been tampered with.

 

From the Breen Encyclopedia "Cast counterfeits have recently appeared of 1800 Wide A's (this refers to a die variety) These are lightweight and show a short horizontal raised mark exteding to the left of the crossbar of A in STATES

Take a look at the image of the reverse from the first post. You can clearly see what looks like the crossbar extending to the left past the side of the letter.

 

Just from the pictures, it looks cast to me.

 

Well, it looks like i am the proud owner of a very expensive cast/fake/counterfeit 1800 dime. If there is a hell for dishonest coin dealers, then i sure hope this guy is in it. I wonder how many other people he cheated. A few from what i heard.
don't want this to turn into a diatribe against dishonest coin dealers, but there seem more than the usual share in the business of coin selling. Unfortunately i have made a few similar experiences in my specialized area of Roman Imperial coinage as well.
I will continue to stick to my rule of buying preferably at auction.
Eduard

 

Eduard:
All things considered, you have been fortunate to purchase some very nice coins.
Don't let one idiot spoil it for you.
Besides, there is always eBay to dump the piece.

 

The authentic Draped Bust 1800 U.S. Dime is:
Composition
Silver
Fineness
0.892
Weight
2.7 g 0.0774 oz ASW
Diameter
19 mm


Have you (carefully) tried the magnet test?

 

red book says 19mm