What the heck are you thinking, ANACS?

A 12 on that half is so bad they should refund that grading fee

 

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VF25 on a bad day. 30 on a good day.

 

I have an issue with that Half...maybe my naiveté is showing, but the "Liberty" really isn't full. I get that the details over-all are way better than Fine, but is it OK to overlook one of the more noticeable design features being so weak?

 

Yes, Liberty isn't the end all be all of grading

 

Good heavens.

 

Just wow... I'd buy that coin all day long for my type set even though it is below XF. Except it's CC, which means I can't afford it in any grade

 

Goodmorning everyone. Remember, the following are opinions so please don't hate the messenger.
I'm going to start with the easy one first.

ToughCOINS, posted: "At the opposite end of the "What the heck are you thinking, ANACS?" spectrum...Needless to say, I'll be breaking this lady out of jail."

IMHO, your coin is correctly graded as a FINE no more no less. It is NOT VF although I should price it as a VF-20. I personally would have preferred F-15. "Gradeflation" and the introduction of loose standards to the new collectors have driven all of you into attack frenzy.

NEXT: I disagree with many of the following comments:

"See the light reddish surfaces? And how the gunk, especially on the reverse, is bunched up against the tight devices? Bunched up gunk is commonly found on copper coins. The raised relief edges are places that retain crud. That means someone rubbed the surface to remove the dirt and gunk, Why is it still there? and it brightened (?) the fields and higher surfaces. There is nothing "brightened" on this coin. So what we have here is a cleaned coin, with some light environmental damage/discoloration." This coin is not cleaned. There is light environmental damage/discoloration as the poster wrote.

"Maybe the submitter sent in a dozen coins or more and they were all problem coins, and since this one was the least atrocious, ANACS cut him a break. "...you have to details this coin, no matter how disappointed you make someone. Agree.

"Copper coins that are this age and have this amount of wear are not even the slightest shade of red. This color is unnatural. Agree, there is no "Mint Red" on this coin. The "unnatural red" color on this coin is actually a NATURAL shade of copper oxidation. It is not due to cleaning. A little conservation could make the 1/2C a beauty.

 

This coin is 200 years old and was worn considerably. It passed through hands for decades. And IMO this shade of red is NOT natural at all. In fact, the suggestion of that is downright silly. This color came from cleaning.

 

In your opinion, what is the highest grade a "worn considerably" coin can reach? The shade of red is due to the environment and NOT due to cleaning.

 

I don't get what you're getting at. It's a fact that this coin had been in contact with oils and dirt and grime for decades... yet somehow the oxidation process was halted?

Insider, there is no luster. Perhaps that will make more sense to everyone. Sure, copper can oxidize to a more subdued reddish hue. But if the coin is so worn that the luster is worn off, well then I can see no circumstance, when combined with hundreds of years, where this color can be retained. Thus, to me, the logical answer is that it is unnatural.

 

Yes and no. The oxidation process was not halted. The coin is no longer mint red. It has oxidized to brown. It has also picked up a lot of crud along the way. The reverse of this coin is beautiful (just dirty). The obverse has some minor corrosion that cannot be completely removed.

Copper coins loose their luster quickly as the surface turns brown and "dirty - black" in this case. With conservation or even with a little "oil" it comes back fast.

This coin is hardly worn at all. It is "net" graded. The coin is closer to an AU-55 than a Fine (what I consider a considerably worn coin to be).

ANA Grading Guide: Very Fine - Light to moderate wear.
Fine - Moderate to heavy (IMO - considerable) wear.

Take away the dark area on the face and that color brown on the surface is perfect for a slightly worn 200-year-old coin. There really is no "red" as I was trying to keep things simple.

 

I disagree that this color can "come back." I also don't think this is anywhere near AU55. I also think you should buy it and tell us your opinion of it in-hand, since it's only $110.

 

IMO, the only thing "wrong" with the color is the "black face." If I got hold of the coin, you would not recognize it. Unfortunately, I don't buy coins w/environmental damage.

If you don't think this is coin has AU details, well...can you get to at least XF-45?

PS Nice discussion.

 

Yeah I think it could be AU50 details, possibly. But XF45 details seems dead on. Here's a half cent I got today. What's you opinion on it? It's raw.

 

The only way to say that coin is a Fine is to grade it by Liberty and Liberty alone. In that case there is no reason for anything but a quick glance to the shield when grading.

 

C-B-D, posted: "Yeah I think it could be AU50 details, possibly. But XF45 details seems dead on. Here's a half cent I got today. What's your opinion on it? It's raw."

Your coin is a better coin with less wear. However, the brown color on the reverse of the OP's coin is to die for (once all the dirt is removed and the surface is cleaned properly). Your coin needs conservation too. Lots of luster at the edges.


@baseball21 posted: "The only way to say that coin is a Fine is to grade it by Liberty and Liberty alone. In that case there is no reason for anything but a quick glance to the shield when grading."

You know the entire coin is graded all at once. I suggest all of you look up what a F-12 looks like in the grading guides AS I DID just to make sure. There is not one speck of mint luster on that coin. IMO it will be crossed as a
F-15 depending on what TPGS it goes to. If I owned the coin I 'd send it back to ANACS and ask for the upgrade to F-15. In any case, F-12 or F-15 has no big price spread.

Dealers tend to "push" grades, right @ToughCOINS. I try to also. That's why I posted it should sell for VF-20 money but not to any major coin wholesaler I know.

 

"ToughCOINS, posted: "Mint luster is not required for seated halves graded VF . . . XF coins, yes, but not VF . . . not even an iota."

You are correct. I forgot we are living in 2017 and not in 1970! I also got this coin mixed up with a coin on another forum I have been discussing - that's two brain farts.

Nevertheless, I took the strike of a CC Mint into consideration and should think ANACS did too.

Then he added, "Without mentioning names, I'm fairly certain it would fetch VF bid from several major coin wholesalers ..."
"The coin exhibits more than enough attributes to grade it choice VF after offsetting the weakly struck scroll in the shield."

IMO, the difference in price between the coin's actual grade (Fine) and the VF grade that both the wholesaler and I (see how I priced the coin) sell it for is called the "profit margin." One day the buyer of this "Choice VF" coin is going to be surprised - unless he holds it long enough (perhaps forty years) for gradflation to make it an XF! Just as it has turned this Fine coin into a VF coin today.