Coin Cleaning Help

Amen brother.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Hi @dougsmit! Hi @Bing!

I thoroughly understand that cleaning ancient coins should not be compared to, included in, nor confused with the activity of serious collectors of superb specimens of ancient coins.

Both my mother and a wonderful spiritual guide I know have said that truly wise people are those who learn from the negative experiences of others and avoid needing to personally experience the same negative outcome. I have been able to easily do that on most of the big things; but for other things, it is impossible to not try them for myself. That's where I am with the cleaning of ancient coins.

I won't be purchasing more crusty coins. I have quite a few - enough to satisfy my curiosity.

Although there is not much of a budget for it, John Anthony's auctions almost always have something I like and can afford. I like the idea of acquiring coins of respected CT collectors even the coins they decided to sell off; and, I enjoy doing that as I'm cleaning these crusties.

I just wanted to assure you that I won't clog up CT with coin cleaning posts; and, that as I enjoy drooling over your gorrrrgeous coins (and those of others on CT), I am also working on putting together for myself what I hope will be a respectable collection of ancient coins.

I appreciate your feedback and opinions and take them all to heart and mind.

Thanks.

 

Yep, I found the phrase "...cleaning the hopeless..." to be a tad pejorative, despite its fundamental accuracy.

Personally, I enjoy seeing "before" and "after" pictures of coins cleaned by collectors on this site, and I would like to continue seeing them. But I'd never try my hand at cleaning coins, even if I weren't a collector of high-quality ancients, because the process just doesn't appeal to me. But I can appreciate that it appeals to others.

 

I apologize for what was seen as pejorative. The intent was not to say people should not clean coins but that the first step in cleaning a coin needs to be identifying a coin that can be cleaned. In a million uncleaned, fresh from the ground coins, I doubt there are a thousand that can be expected to yield an ancient coin even what we might call mid-grade. This is not the level coin that Ides seeks but more the level I collect. In the past the rest were melted as scrap; today some of them show up on eBay. All I ask is that people realize what they are getting and learn how to recognize the differences.

I'm glad to hear that. The coins I have consigned to John have sold well if the coins were nice and rarely if the coins were ordinary. I was surprised that so many people prefer $10 worth of uncleaned coins that will yield, with effort, two partly identifiable coins worth no more than $2-3 than one fully identifiable one for the same price. There is, it seems, a market for the better and the lesser exceeding the middle. Interesting.

Compare the uncleaned coins shown on this thread to the $10 and under coins in John Anthony's sales over the last few months. Neither buying uncleaned or junk coins from John will cause you to make a financial profit in the short run. Decide whether you prefer one source or the other. Not all of us will agree. I apologize for what was seen as pejorative.

 

Actually many people who are coin collectors who have never collected or owned any ancients are surprised when they order any of the lower priced ancients offered by most outlets (@John Anthony excepted) to find how small the coins are. After the initial shock, the feeling is "If I can accept something this small, I should try cleaning some". After 50 or so, enthusiasm lags and the collector will either buy coins that do not need to be cleaned or that can (we think) be improved by modest cleaning.

 

Oh! Truly, @dougsmit, no apology is necessary. Gosh, I did not take any offense at what you wrote. I honestly appreciate that you took your time to explain something you had thought about to me (and for the second time).

When I bid on John Anthony's coins I always go for coins with cool reverses, pretty patinas, or rulers (or rulers wearing head gear) I don't already have. I am always extremely happy with what I receive from him. It feels rather comfortable to get your hand-me-downs. So, please keep 'em coming!

Thanks again and with respect,
LaC

 

Well, years ago, one of my first eBay sales was returned because the coin was too small! Lol. The dimensions were clearly spelled out in the listing, but the buyer felt that a coin should not be so small as a lepton!

 

"Uncleaned" lots used to be a good gig. I unfortunately don't have a lot of photos from the early eBay days but managed to find these two. Just a sampling, I used to buy lots of 500 or 1000 and many had decent silver in them. Even when this photo was taken they were starting to dry up.

 

Yummy!

 

Regarding size: Those who complain about small coins are the same people who insist on the cheapest uncleaned lots filled with AE4. Not all that long ago you could get bulk lots of worn sestertii, mostly Trajan, Hadrian and Pius, that had been the workhorses of their century for a couple dollars each. I have seen bags of them where maybe half had enough reverse left that you could ID them to some degree. The same coins in mint state would sell well into the thousands. You can not have all three: Size, Grade, Cheap. Pick two.

Would this be a good time for us to show our Ptolemaic manhole covers and Aes Grave? Small ancients?

 

Lots like these still come up for sale, but they're probably much pricier now that you only find them in the group lot section of auctions like Naumann's and Roma's.

 

I just wanted to see if I could be good at it.

 

The name of this forum section is "Ancient Coins," not "Collecting High-Grade Ancient Coins." Discussions about cleaning ancients are every bit as relevant as discussions about coin literature, ancient history, reverse types or whatever. People who aren't interested can just ignore the thread; no harm done.

So post all you want about cleaning ancients with a clear conscience. Most ancients were probably cleaned at one time anyway.

 

In our lifetimes, the Golden Age of uncleaned ancient coins was shortly after the fall of the Iron Curtain, when the West became flooded with literally millions of coins from Eastern Europe. I, too, used to buy them in lots of 100-1,000, and I also found many outstanding beauties in these lots. There were probably 10 to 15 good years. Eventually, though, the people digging them up realized the true value of what they were selling to exporters for pennies, and both they and the exporters got a lot better at figuring out which coins were worth cleaning themselves and which coins weren't worth bothering with.

Sadly (for us), those days aren't likely to return. Right now, cleaned low-to-medium grade LRBs are selling for a couple bucks a pop on eBay, or about the same price as uncleaned coins, so it's hard to make a financial case for buying uncleaned coins. Do it for the "armchair-archaeologist" experience and the joy of discovery. And be prepared to ruin a few as you hone your skills. I've certainly ruined some in my time; it's part of the learning process. Today, at least, you are unlikely to destroy a really nice or valuable coin, since they've already been pulled out.

 

True. What I remember is several dealers that had almost limitless quantities available in kilograms or by the 1000's. Most were less than $1 per coin.

 

Man always late to the party.

 

No reason you shouldn't. Just realize that it takes a long time and a lot of practice, and you'll lose many coins in the process. We all have.

Keep in mind that patience never harmed a coin. Some coins will clean up very quickly and easily. Others will take months, sometimes years. These are the coins you end up damaging because, if you're like me, you are always trying something new, hoping to speed up the process.

Consider following "Glenn's Ever-Increasing Cycle of Harshness" when cleaning coins. (I just made this term up.) Always start at the lowest level and work your way up. Totally exhaust the possibility of success at one level before moving on to the next.

Glenn's Ever-Increasing Cycle of Harshness:
1) brush off with a toothbrush with the vinyl bristled trimmed down to about 1/8". I needed, pick at the dirt with a toothpick or bamboo skewer;

2) soak in distilled or de-ionized water (never tap water) for a few days to a week or so and then scrub with a toothbrush and some mild dish washing liquid. Rinse off and put back in DW and wait some more. Repeat for a few weeks or months or until you can't see any improvement;

3) repeat the above, but then lightly scrub the coin with a brass bristle brush. Bronze coins only! Never use a brass brush on a silver coin. Check the coin carefully to make sure you aren't damaging the patina. Brass is softer than bronze, so the bristles won't scratch the metal, but some coins, usually light green to green in color, have very soft patinas, and you can ruin this kind of a patina with a brass brush. Never use a steel bristle brush--it will scratch the metal;

4) Make a brass tool by buying a brass rod from a hobby or hardware store and filing one end into a sharp point. Look at the coin under a stereo microscope and use your brass tool to pick dirt out of crevices. Best to have a couple of different tools with different points--blade-like, needle-like, etc.;

5) Electrolysis. The last straw, used only in desperation. Will strip off everything on the surface and take you down to bare metal. Contrary to what a lot of people say, it will not cause pitting or destroy the surface of the coin, but it will reveal any problems that may have been hiding under the patina (such as pitting or a destroyed surface).

Many people experiment with different chemicals. I haven't found any that I thought worked very well, but if you want to try some, I'd suggest inserting their use between steps 4 and 5. Never use any acid, such as lemon juice or Pepsi, though. They will eat into the coin's surface. You're better off just going with electrolysis.

 

There are still hoards of these clunkers around. I also remember that one hoard Doug is likely talking about. Seemed an endless supply of them, poor to maybe Good or so, but with lovely tan patinas. The current hoard is poor to sometimes VG (the hoard contained better examples, but those are being sold individually). Roma has been selling a lot of them in groups, they tend to sell $15 and up per coin. Still not a good deal. Check Ebay results. There are many selling around $5.

 

Glenn's Ever-Increasing Cycle of Harshness:

2) soak in distilled or de-ionized water (never tap water)

Brass is softer than bronze, so the bristles won't scratch the metal, but some coins, usually light green to green in color, have very soft patinas, and you can ruin this kind of a patina with a brass brush.

4) Make a brass tool by buying a brass rod from a hobby or hardware store and filing one end into a sharp point. Look at the coin under a stereo microscope and use your brass tool to pick dirt out of crevices. Best to have a couple of different tools with different points--blade-like, needle-like, etc.;

Many people experiment with different chemicals. I haven't found any that I thought worked very well, but if you want to try some, I'd suggest inserting their use between steps 4 and 5. Never use any acid, such as lemon juice or Pepsi, though. They will eat into the coin's surface. You're better off just going with electrolysis.

Not skilled at responding to different areas of a long post, so bare with me...Ever increasing...I like that, it's hard to unclean a coin. This addiction people have to distilled water is kind of funny...tap water in most parts of the USA is 0.01% or less dissolved solids. Now this is not good to let dry on your coins, and the solids are mostly salts, so always rinse with distilled or deionized water, but for a good soak, tap water is just fine. Brass brush...good...soft green patina...otherwise known as bronze disease or verdigris...not good...remove. Remember rose thorns. Finally chemicals, I trust them more than electrolysis...but then, I'm a chemist.

 

The dissolved solids aren't the problem. Much tap water contains chlorine, which, given the right conditions, can trigger the onset of bronze disease.

Not always. Sometime you just have a soft green patina that can be scratched or chipped off. Here's an example from my collection:


Marcus Aurelius
Provincial Bronze (AE26)
Moesia Inferior, Nikopolis ad Istrum, before A.D. 161
Obv: AVPHΛIOC OVHPOC KAICAP
Rev: NEIKOΠOΛEITΩNΠPOC IC - Serapis, standing left, holding scepter and sacrificing with patera over altar.
Unlisted in Moushmov or RPC; unpublished?
26mm, 11.0g.

The patina is stable, but fragile, and I wouldn't want to take a brass brush to it.