E-bay Graded Coin Rules Are Officially Posted

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As much as I would like to see a world where bzcollektor is right, that is a dream world. I completely agree with GDJMSP except for one thing - His opinion definitely carries more weight. Not necessarily because he is an administrator, but because he has been right way too often.

Expecting eBay to police every transaction is is ridiculous.

 

I won`t respond to GD`s point by point rebuttal of my post as we have both clearly stated our opinions. I stand by mine. WE report, YOU decide, to steal a line.

No one expects Ebay to police every transaction. The Chinese counterfiets (imported or resold by shady American "I got this at an estate sale, I`m stupid about coins, so make your own decision" guys have been known to Ebay for YEARS. Been reported dozens or hundreds of times EACH. They switch ID`s as often as you change underwear.

The SELF GRADING CROOKS that take advantage of newbies ,naive, and the great unwashed masses are more brazen. They exist only because EBAY has given them a marketing platform. DO YOU PEOPLE GET IT???? GD???

THESE CROOKS WOULD NOT EXIST WITHOUT EBAY. Ebay has known for years . They finally decided to act, based on YEARS of complaints from people just like all of us here at cointalk. The cointalk community may have had a hand in EBAYS decision, based on the complaints and number of threads started right here on a daily basis.

I think I may agree politically with GD. When did it become OK to blame someone else for our own actions and the travails that befall us all when things go wrong because of our own poor decisions.

I don`t believe this is the case with EBAY. EBAY has MANY MANY rules. Nothing with a swastika on it, even if it is a legtimate, long collected piece of WWII memorabilia. No serial killer crap. No stolen cars. No fake Rolex watches, Vuitton or Couch stuff allowed. Not even fake DG sunglasses.

SO why is it OK for EBAY to allow counterfiet coins and fraudulently marketed "so-called" TPG coins????

Tell me

I dunno.... Alot of you`s agree with me. Some of you`s I might as well try and debate my freakin cat.

He`s cool, but he doesn`t have a clue either, no matter how much I think he`s listening.......

 

GD Wrote:" Based on your reasoning, any proprty owner that allows flea markets or swap meets to be held on his property is responsible if one of the vendors cheats a buyer there or sells them fake merchandise"

I had to respond to this.

Using a "venue" argument to compare the Baptist Church Saturday Flea Market to Ebay is both ludicrous and oh so very wrong on so many levels. Whether it is the Sisters of Ascencion, or Farmer Jonah`s 2 acres of tables flea market on a Weekend , comparing and using a "venue argument" to EBAY is both ludicrous and disingenuous.

Ebay has established their own rules, requirements, and performance standards. All subject to applicable Calif regs, and US codes. Unlike the Columbus Auction here in Burl Co. NJ. To compare ebay to a local flea market is like comparing apples to to an abrams tank

 

I have been watching this one from the sidelines.

My thoughts are that Ebay IS responsible for making an EFFORT to keep crooks and scammers off the site.

The flea market owner must watch out for that booth selling fake Nike shoes and bootleg dvd's. Once it is brought to their attention, it is entirely their responsibility to remove the seller from the grounds.

Used cars, it is a common practise to put lipstick on that pig to sell it, wash and wax, maybee new paint and steam clean under the hood, but it is unlawful to claim new brakes, new motor and new tranny if it has in fact not been done.

Buyers need beware , absolutly positively, but it is not free market on the newbies !! To say anything goes, to each his own, let the predators prey is simply ludicrous in my opinion and very callous.

 

According to the new issue of CoinWorld, SEGS is very upset about the new rules and contemplating a class-action suit against eBay. The article refers to several online discussions resulting in large orders with the unchosen TPG's being canceled. I haven't seen any discussion of SEGS in this thread. What do you think of them?

 

I could see this coming, but it occurred faster than I expected.

If you look at the CDN analysis of TPGs, SEGS falls into the middle group along with ANACS, PCI and NCI.

I believe this means that they are competent regarding authentication, but their slabs are best purchased sight-seen.

 

A newies perspective

Hi all:

This thread has been very interesting read!!! From my perspective, I cannot expect Ebay to protect me from myself. I do however expect them to help protect me from False advertising and listing. Things like, quoting Prices based on PCGS values when they are not PCGs graded!!

WE all know that grading is subjective and the fact that a TPG consistently over grades is not a Crime! It may be unethical! When I first stated looking at slabed coins on ebay and say the quantitiy of MS/PR 70s that SGS was putting out as compared to PCGS, I immediately knew that something was not right! You know the saying, If it sounds to good to be true, then walk, no RUN the other way!!!

I do think that Ebay, if they get a lot of complaints about a particular Seller misrepresenting their items for sale, that they need to take actions to remove them.

Just my 1 cents worth!!!

G.E.

 

You get two cents for that comment!

Most "newbies" would not have enough patience or insight to really look at those factors. That's what SGS and other prey on. Ebay let's it go - for now anyway.

Good observations. You will do well.

clembo

 

Greysheet and slabs

I'm not going to go deep here. Someone else can.

Greysheet does routinely have a Certified Coins Market Indicator. A few variables come into play and the font is REALLY small so I'm not quoting it. Bottom line is that they list 8 TPGs.

In order of "average score" they are.
PCGS
NGC
ANACS *
ICG
PCI
SEGS
NCI
INS

* Note to readers ANACS average is actually lower than ICG. They have a very low low end and "decent" high end.

Once again though lets go bottom line. Of the vast number of so called TPGs. Greysheet seems to acknowledge only 8. Gotta be a reason for that.

 

I guess I feel strongly both ways...

I'm in violent agreement with GD that the primary responsibility for keeping oneself safe from fraud et al is oneself. "Caveat emptor" was not originated when eBay came along...

On the other hand, what's different between eBay and the basic neighborhood flea market is its reach. Post a coin for sale, or any other item for that matter, out on eBay and the potential audience is huge, and worldwide.

This is clearly a double-edged sword: it's possible to get something on eBay you'd almost never find otherwise. A non-coin personal example is an old "Social Studies" book I read over and over as a first grader, delivered to my door for just a buck plus shipping. I can't imagine how many flea markets, used book stores, garage sales, etc. I would have had to comb to come up with it otherwise.

I would be lying if I said I didn't get some great deals on eBay as well, although not so much in the coin category, and I think most folks here would be with me on that point. However, you've really got to know what you're doing, which comes back to education.

But there's the downside, and although we're talking mostly completely fraudulent items here, there is also the general problem of poor or misleading descriptions and grading-- whether deliberate or not. It's one thing for a less than above board "dealer" to shove an NG-0 Morgan in your face when you're down at the local swap meet and it's another when said "dealer" has an audience that's potentially in the thousands, if not more. It does a disservice to the hobby that is far more damaging than if confined to a purely local venue. The net for Thalia and me is that I've largely shied away from eBay for coins-- I just don't feel I know enough yet to "Shop Victoriously" (to use their silly new slogan).

One other point that's somewhat unrelated-- does it seem that the Canadian TPGs have been frozen out of the official listing of approved graders? Though they don't "slab" in the strict sense of the word, I don't think that ICCS would be considered a shady player in the market, for example.

 

The general impression I'm getting is that if a TPG has a valid and accessable certification database, they should be added to the "blessed" list.
I can see SEGS, PCI and ICCS fitting into that category.

But we're dealing with eBay and logic doesn't always prevail.

 

Naw,

Just share with the class if you would be so kind.

You are the voice of knowledge whereas I am the voice of wit.

Share the knowledge por favor.

 

If you are waituing for guesses, I would say ANACS, PCI, ACG and Blanchard. I know I have a couple right.

 

Wasn't there one called Hallmark.
Oldish.
One of their slabs turns up now and then.

 

I will agree ebay can't be responsible for every coin transaction. However, the difference between ebay and a flea market is that a buyer can't examine the coin in hand. Ebay should take action against unscrupulous grading, coin grading practices, and pictures.

Here is are a few auctions where the seller will wish they never purchased the coin, if they ever try to resell or become educated in buying coins later. I think ebay has to take some action with fraud and misleading auctions like some of these. Ebay over-graders

 

There was, but PCI bought them out. I believe that they were formed in the late 80's.

 

Go figure.

I didn't even get to the bottom of the first page and SGS was a forerunner.
Yeah, REAL quality there. NOT!!!