1883-Oh My...

Out of the 25 or so Morgan and Peace dollars I inherited (no rare dates, not sure about varieties) - a group of 1883-O's are in the best condition. They all look around AU but they were stored in these tan paper old 2x2's along with a bunch of Peace dollars that are caked in brown gunk (green in the case of the Peace I just posted in the other thread.)

These have a film of their own that is more of a light brown, but they're still way better off than the Peace's.

I took these to the local dealer and they recommended taking Koinsolv to all of them with a Q-Tip. I can see why that would be the route a dealer might take in trying to brighten them up for sale, but these were my great grandfather's and I just want to conserve them, not sell. I don't want them to be damaged by any PVC present either, so I'm not quite sure what to do next.

Any input is greatly appreciated as always! Here's the 1883-O's:

 

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Those appear to be all the same for pair 36a maybe without looking

 

They do look to be all the same die pair (I'm going with VAM 21A), which means they were not likely dispersed into circulation (i.e., they're probably uncirculated). Nice mementos of your great grandfather!

I really don't see anyhitng noxious on the coins from the pictures you show. A solvent like acetone (not sure exactly what Koinsolv is) would remove surface gunk and contaminants without affecting the metal.

 

+1
Yea when i noticed the clashes, my eye immediately went to the tf area.
21a sounds about right

 

So close. Can you imagine if this was a stash of bag fresh 22A's!

 

Koinsolv is n-Propyl Bromide (1-Bromopropane), an industrial degreaser/solvent popular for its' lack of reactivity, which is encouraging as these things go although its' environmental and health impact is noted as potentially problematic. Not on my personal list of recommendations due to being a hydrocarbon-based solvent either way.

I default to "every raw coin I handle soaks in acetone first."

 

Yeah, I worry about the kid at the dealer who uses that stuff day after day in a small windowless room with one fan.

 

Are there any companies besides NGC out there who do "conservation " for raw coins at a reasonable price anyone could recommend? After trying acetone baths on some of the Peace dollars I feel these need something a little more heavy handed than acetone baths to remove the gunk but I don't want to ruin them. Can always leave them be but would love to see what a couple would look like beneath whatever the years in the flips/tin can has left on them if it could be done without ruining the luster. May be wishful thinking but I figured it doesn't hurt to ask.

I suppose I could just pick one or two and send them to NGC for the full treatment and slabbing to keep as mementos of my G-grandfather despite the fact that I'd be taking a hit value wise to do it. Any suggestions for the best candidate(s) from those pics for that would be much appreciated as well.

 

The Morgans you present here look to have some form of silver sulfide toning. Not the prettiest examples we've seen, but I wouldn't expect acetone to have any effect on them whatsoever. It's not "crud," it's "tarnish." As such, only those processes which either remove or reverse the chemical reaction which has occurred will help them. Thiourea ("dip") will strip the tarnish, but you run the risk of removing too much and leaving a plainly-overdipped coin which won't ever look original again. There's a point past which the layer of tarnish has become so thick - usually identifiable by the dark color present - that you have to remove too much metal for the coin to recover. The patch on the bottom left of the reverse of your first coin is an example.

Given how they were stored, it's possible that PVC was not the culprit for the Peace Dollar, and there might be other chemicals which, um, added their thoughts to the tarnishing process.

The hardest part of conserving a coin is deciding whether conservation is possible or recommended. We had a recent thread here where NCS truly screwed up a coin; frankly, I don't think that coin was a candidate for conservation and they should have refused the job. The proof is in the results they obtained.

These Morgans are, to me, borderline. One shouldn't attempt conservation for coins of less than high AU grade - except in cases of dire need to avoid active PVC or similar - because conservation is kind of all-or-nothing and the resulting surface cleanliness is incompatible with "originality" at a circulated grade. There Morgans look to likely be Mint State or, at worst, very lightly circulated and as such qualify on that basis. The covering is pretty thick in places, though, and one is left wondering whether an intervention comprehensive enough to remove all of that might be overdoing it.

I hesitate to recommend a process because the goal is to retain originality and pleasing appearance, and most of these processes are not to be undertaken without enough experience (spell: "enough coins ruined so you know what going too far looks like") to approach things confidently.

 

Great post and information- thank you.

 

I don't see acetone or any other organic solvents doing anything to those coins. And I think they look fine just as they are. That is their correct appearance after some toning has occurred. The toning isn't the most even. but it does look natural. I wouldn't mess with them at all.

 

These are his grandfather's. It wouldn't matter. To you it would, not him.

 

Then just store them nice and safe in your Roy Roger's Lunchbox, John.

 

After a bit of digging, I'd want to see some really compelling advantages to Koinsolv before I'd consider using it instead of acetone.

 

No opinion on whether or not to do it on the coins in question, but just as general knowledge the TPGs all have conservation options.

 

Thanks to all. At this point, I'm leaning towards sending just one to NCS so that I can gain some insight into what's going on there and have the fun of seeing one of his coins in a slab. Just have to decide which one.

Assuming there's nothing eating them that I need to worry about after sitting in these for 30+ years, I'll leave them in their original state.

 

Ah, thanks- I wasn't aware of that. The local dealer sends to PCGS often so maybe I can squeak mine in with those or something.

 

Wanted to mention on this thread- I did take seriously the advice given to leave them alone. The pictures I took above were awful and didn't show the film on the surfaces I had mentioned very well, but it was caked on the inside of the can they were in for decades.

I tried an acetone soak on one and it removed whatever was on there and revealed much more lustrous surfaces than I expected. I realize acetone shouldn't do that under most circumstances- at least I've never seen it so drastic.

Just wanted to clarify that I went into it accepting that it could very well make things worse on the one coin and if it did (or did nothing) I was going to leave them all alone... I think I just got lucky in this particular instance since whatever was on them came right off.

Definitely a learning experience and I can see why I've heard that it can go the other way and reveal things negatively for sure.

 

The papers, which aren't Kraft, may have been slightly acidic, which ate a bit into the coins, so it isn't PVC, but AgCl. And a solvent won't take that off. I personally use Methylene chloride to remove PVC and hazing. Does a much better job than acetone. Like my mom said, like dissolves like, and dichloromethane will deal with poly vinyl chloride.