Is this toning AT or NT?

@MontCollector

I'm glad my explanations helped. Unfortunately I was thinking of one other coin when I mentioned the 1960 P. IMO the one in the Registry set IS an End of Roll (EOR) coin, not one placed in an old Mint Set. My Bad. Sorry about that. The others are all correct. On the 1960 P you can actually see the toning from one of the folds from the paper roll going from about 11 o'clock to about 3 o'clock on the obverse.

 

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Just as a comment on the toning market in general, AT and NT is a thing of the past. Market acceptable is the new thing. If you can AT something mother nature can as well hence humans were able to do it. Trying to guess between those two is a crap shoot at best and yes a guess

 

Unusually crisp legends for a '58, which tend to run on the mushy side. Is it a proof?

 

I would say Market Acceptable. Nothing about is strikes one as artificial. I would guess it was wrapped in something (tissue paper) or maybe stored in an envelope?
There is a small chance it could have been baked, but usually that leads to slightly more extreme colors.

 

If I had to guess probably acceptable, but the white balance and color in that picture is so far off it's hard to judge toning without the actual true color showing.

 

Pink watercolors.......

 

Prepare for a whoopin' in the morning........

 

If the white balance is correct, I vote artificial. If it is not that rich a color in the hand, I can buy that it's mint set toning. I'd expect more bluish-purple, less pinky, though. I have ZERO problem with the toning patterns, it is classic double mint set pattern. The specific color bugs me. Could be mint set toning subsequently chemically altered. That said, I have a reddish blackish purpleish 1961 proof dime that I personally cut from the pliofilm and I don't understand that one either.

 

Definitely need to know what the album it's in actually looks like, as it's hard to believe the color isn't heavily skewed towards the Red. I pulled the image into the Gimp and tried backing out colors; with CMYRGB channels available, the only channel change which actually altered the hue of the image was Red. That, to me, means the image is heavily tilted towards Red and the color cannot be believed. The alternative is it's a red-toned coin in a red-toned album, which of course isn't impossible.

But I'd need to know if that's true before rendering an opinion.

 

That's some fancy shootin' there, Dave, on the color curves. Do you know of a redddish album page? Offhand, I can't think of one. Almost every color but reddish, but not that. I see all kinds of retro albums out here in "old school" country, with lots of colors. Thing is, very few legacy album pages seem to have MS coins in them around here. Most old school guys were "just fill the stinking album hole" kinds of collectors.

 

Volante, posted: "As a collector of toned coins, I have to say the market for toned ASEs has gone beyond the point of lunacy. I cannot believe the premiums some people are paying for slabbed neon toners like those."

IMO, it all started with the naturally toned SE in PCI holders. When these became sought after and prices rose, a demand was created and filled!

PS I vote "Market Acceptable" on 1958 50c

 

But do you believe the picture's color is right?

Also, I believe the demand was filled with that which was created, intentionally! Meaning - even Laura Sperber hasn't yet called out even the BEGINNINGS of coin doctors and their "dreck".

Speaking of which, how many hard-boiled egg yolks do you recommend for the Tupperware to retone a dipped bust half? Or should I just stick with a high pH thiourea bath?

 

I've been asked: "But do you believe the picture's color is right?"

Sorry, I'm not qualified to answer that. IMHO, expert photographers such as you and the other esteemed and highly regarded member who has me on "Ignore," tend to be too finicky about color balance, heck and every other thing that I am ignorant about in a photographic image. That said, I'm very sure lighting is one thing that affects colors.

Bottom line: Who cares? When an ignorant , wanna-be photographer such as myself can tell just about everything necessary to see in a less than perfect image , the nit picks don't matter to me. IMO, the coin is BORDERLINE. 50% a TPGS will AT or NT. I'm AT.

 

AT (post #35) but Market Acceptable (post #33). Hmm. Kinda says it all, huh? That right there is enough justification for me to stay away from the toner market and call "BS" on the entire segment. No additional data needed.

One other dissent: I do NOT consider myself an expert in DIGITAL photography. I have a lot to still learn there. I DO consider myself an expert in traditional silver halide based photography, complete with industry certifications. That and $5 plus gets me a cup of coffee at Starbucks in this era.

 

How ANYONE can look at the thread @19Lyds linked to and take the toner market seriously, EXCEPT FOR BURLAP MORGANS, utterly astounds me. It's like the whole stinking hobby has a "KICK ME" sign on the back of their shirts. The 1952 Franklinstein Monster at the top of this thread looks like it was subjected to a high voltage arc at about 6 o'clock on the obverse. That straight as an arrow diagonal line across the wood of the bell was probably a wire. Are we talking coins or welding here?

 

To be fair your anti-toning opinion is beyond established here so that link and your response could be a slight case of confirmation bias. Basically we have to take your opinions on toning with a grain of salt at this point because even smart folks like you Kurt (and I mean that sincerely not sarcastically) can let their biases cloud things sometimes.

No one doubts that there is some ridiculousness in the toning market world but using a link to the extreme like 19Lyds doesn't discredit the entire toning market. I also think the coins in that thread are absurd and even made me face palm when I first saw it. I still enjoy a lot of toned coins. Just posted one in the Newest Acquisition thread I like a lot actually.

In other words there are a lot of people in the toning market with "kick me" signs on them no doubt, but there are way more who enter that market reasonably. IMO

 

NOTE: This was an EDIT (not indicated) to a post after my reply: "Speaking of which, how many hard-boiled egg yolks do you recommend for the Tupperware to retone a dipped bust half? Or should I just stick with a high pH thiourea bath? "

I don't know what this has to do with the present discussion. Perhaps the poster is either implying I'm a "coin doctor" or is giving us some of his personal tricks to tone coins.

V. Kurt Bellman, posted: AT (post #35) but Market Acceptable (post #33). Hmm. Kinda says it all, huh?"

Yes, kinda does as TWO DIFFERENT COINS are involved in the two different posts.
BTW, there is a discussion on another forum about AT or NT. It appears the TPGS have become tired of "playing God." It seems that no one cares anymore. They have moved to "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable."

V. Kurt Bellman continues: "One other dissent: I do NOT consider myself an expert in DIGITAL photography. I have a lot to still learn there. I DO consider myself an expert in traditional silver halide based photography, complete with industry certifications. That and $5 plus gets me a cup of coffee at Starbucks in this era."

Perhaps "expert" was the wrong word. Somewhere on CT I have read several times that you have more than a basic knowledge of photography. Compared to me, you ARE an expert as ignorant me did not know there was any difference in the two types of images. Now, I understand that chemicals and pixels are different. That changes nothing I wrote because the method used to make an image does not matter to me if I can see all that is needed to see in an image.

 

All I was "implying", and now I'll state it outright, was that there are MANY coin doctors out there, in fact I believe there are MANY who are silent CT members (not you), and I do NOT subscribe to the "shush, be quiet" school of thought regarding them. I believe the best way to crush their impact on the coin market is to spread the techniques they use as far and wide and loudly as we can, which I shall continue to do. The more people know, the better, and we can shut down this silly fraudulent sector of the coin market. Thassall.

BTW, both thoughts were directed to the 1958 Franklin, no? When did you switch back to the 1952? I don't see any way your opinions at post 33 and 35 can be seen as applying to different coins. Both PLAINLY refer to the 1958 Doug pictured.

As pertains to digital vs. chemical photography - it's not just apples and oranges, but apples and oak trees.