1828 Quarter - Please grade

Hello again,
i am posting two coins tonight, about which i would appreciate your opinions. Both are from auctions in the UK-Spinks, about 1986. The first one is an 1828 quarter. It is darkly toned, but a little spotty on the obverse. It is quite pleasant overall however. It was grade as ''good very fine" (UK grade). What does it grade according to US standards? Any information about the variety
is also appreciated.
Thank you.
Eduard

 

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Is it darker than the photos suggest?

This coin appears to have VF/XF details, but also appears to have been cleaned in the past. Would need to see in-hand to be sure, as the photos have me a bit confused...

Sorry, I can't help with the variety.

 

good very fine ( I believe) is equal to VF+ to XF.
And it probably is.

 

I want to say xf40, but I have not seen a lot of examples of bust quarters

 

Hi Eduard,
Your quarter is a B-1 variety. The B-1 variety is the most common variety for this year. Your coin in my opinion has strong xf-au details, and may have been cleaned at one point.

 

I say XF details with an old cleaning.

 

Thank you all for your comments. It is quite difficult to take pictures so they really represent the actual appearance of a coin.
I have not mastered the art yet of finding optimal lighting conditions. In this case, the coin does look quite a bit lighter in the picturethan it is in reality. It is really a "dark battleship grey"colour.

On the subject of cleaning, i have to confess i am realy no good at telling when a coin has been cleaned. Some cases are obvious: for example a 2000 year old Roman denarius with a brigth, shiny apperance....that just cannot be.
(although i once found a denarius of the emperor Vitellius (69 a.D) with my metal detector buried at 15cm in hard ground, and it was very light silver in colour believe or not, when i dug it out after ca. 1800 years in the ground. It then quickly toned dark grey upon exposure to the atmosphere.
Recently i bought an 1874 S quarter in ANACS holder marked "AU 50 detail, net EF 40 cleaned". It actually has a very nice uniform brownish tone.....i never would have guessed that it had been cleaned. yes, this is a mystery to me.
Regards,
Eduard

 

Don`t need anybody`s grading standards, just an eye, and experience.

Clasp is clean, Curls as well, looks like XF40, with an older cleaning. Higher details on obverse and reverse have a consistant light wear. Really looks at least XF40. While not being as familiar with the John Reich designed Bust Quarters and Dimes, as I am with the Bust Halves, this coin looks consistant with an XF 40 or so coin that was cleaned back in the day in the 1930-1950 time frame. Just as so many Bust Halves. This is only my personal appraisal as to when these bust coins were cleaned sometime back in the day.

OH SO MANY bust halves were cleaned sometime in the early to mid 20th Century. I have never seen an explanation as to when or why so many of these bust halves were cleaned, but in my opinion, as many as 2/3 or more of all Bust Halves you see today have been cleaned back in the day.

This coin looks consistant with an old cleaning, just like the Overton Bust Halves I have spoken to.

 

I grade these coins by remaining luster and wear, not ANA standards, per se. The coin looked like it had liner VF/XF luster/wear. Wouldn't surprise me to see it in a TPG XF, but I tend to lean towards VF.

 

I think its less than an XF coin. But hey, whaddo I know?

 

I agree. After all, there has been countless posts here on "poor grading" by non-standard grading services. Without some sort of standardization in grading, we can't very well be too critical with grading standards stated by others.
Guy~

 

The problem is that grading services don't necessarily use ANA standards, so the subjectivity is inceased. I think that if uncleaned, this coin would slab as an XF. Does that match ANA standards.......nope.

Doug is correct about problem with different standards being used. It creates confusion within the hobby.

 

Based on photos and description in the ANA Grading Standards book 6th Edition; I would say VF-35. It looks almost as nice as the Extremely Fine example pictured in the book. This coin would be what many in the business refer to as a "slider". However, the strange color of the coin may be evidence of cleaning or altered surfaces. That of course detracts from the overall "eye appeal" and lessens the value somewhat.

 

I see your point -- grading without standards is not really grading -- and agree, but in my case, I'm not sure there's much of a difference. Let me explain...

I have found that the method described above ends up resulting in the same grade as the ANA method -- I just don't memorize wear patterns. It's more of a visual thing -- at least for me.

The above method does sometimes diverge from strict ANA standards, for instance in the Buffalo nickels and the Barbers, where the grade is generally derived by a single detail (the horn on the buff, or LIBERTY on the Barbers), but not by much usually.

That said, I realize that, for instance PCGS has their own set of grading, NGC another, ANA a third, EAC a fourth, etc., so as long as I can translate "my" grade consistently into grade standard X, I'm OK (I think ).

Take care...Mike

 

Leadfoot,
I understand what you're trying to say. We have all seen and studied so many coins over the years that we are often able to accurately grade these coins simply by looking at them. We often feel we don't need to whip out the Photograde book every time we come across a coin to be graded. That being said, I feel, whenever two numismatists differ on a coin's grade then that is definately the time for them to go and get their books. Thus, when GDJMSP inquired as to why many of us felt this coin had better than VF details it was time for us to refer back to the grading books. Am I making any sense?

 

I won't argue over grading and/or grading standards and just state that I believe that the coin will grade at VF-35! Also, I don't believe that it has been cleaned as I can't really see any evidence of a cleaning and since Eduard stated that the pictures make the coin appear lighter than it actually is.

There appears to be an extra tail (Serif) on the upper tail (or whatever you call it) of the "1" in the Date and something inside the upper portion of the lower loop of the second "8" in the Date! Could this be an unlisted Overdate???


Frank