Sometimes quality isn't everything...

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Ardatirion, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    Scotland, silver 1669 Merk. (Its about the size of a half dollar, to put it in perspective)

    As some of you may or may not have noticed, its not particularly easy to come by Scottish coins. Even if you go to the "Regional - Scotland" section on eBay UK, it is mostly full of 1950's Scottish shillings (similar to our state quarters) or communion tokens. Only a handful of genuine Scottish coins ever show up.

    The example below is an interesting one that will, at first, cause many to blanch. Yes, its a bit damaged. But ask yourself, why? What does this damage mean? You may find an interesting tale.

    Note the wavy, uneven appearance of the coin in the image - its bent. Tons of hammered English coins appear in this same way and various theories exist to attempt to explain them. I personally believe that these coins were folded as love tokens. A more flashy explanation is that they were crafted as a talisman, to ward off witches. (A big problem in England at the time. ;)) Remember the nursery rhym, "there was a crooked man, who had a crooked sixpence"? Same general idea.

    So, taking my explanation, this coin was given as a love token by a reasonably wealthy person. I say wealthy because this is a rather large coin for the time period and Scotland was notoriously devoid of specie. To spice things up, it was probably a rather old-fashioned person giving this love token. Folding of coins largely died out with the switch to thicker, machine-made coinage. Its a LOT more difficult to bend these than it was to bend the old hammered issues!

    Flash forward a few years, decades, centuries. Someone decides that they think this old coin is really nifty, perhaps a descendant of the original recipient or even a collector such as ourselves. They decide to un-bend it. To do so, they heat it over a flame (note the somewhat brown area on the reverse below '1669') and unbend it. The first fold they attempt to flatten out proves to be somewhat difficult, and they have to push the awl in several times before the fold is gone. (Note the five puncture marks on the face of Charles II) Eventually though, they get the hang of it and flatten out the coin with only one minor incident - the awl slipped again, causing a bit of a gouge. (obverse at the bottom of the bust).

    Flash-bang, its on ebay. I bid. I win. And now I have this delectable little piece of history all to my own.

    But oh, you say, its only a damaged coin!
     

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  3. bqcoins

    bqcoins Olympic Figure Skating Scoring System Expert

    I can see it in my minds eye, thanks for the picture, ane reminding us that collecting is also about the history!
     
  4. coinnut

    coinnut Senior Member

    Great detective work

    Great detective work,I love coins with history and a story.
    Enjoyed your deductions .
     
  5. acanthite

    acanthite ALIIS DIVES

    That was some great history, I learned something new. Thanks!
     
  6. invictus

    invictus Senior Member

    Can you add some details as to how a folded coin signified love? And what does the lass do with it- does it wedge in her bosom more securely when folded?

    Interesting stuff
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Ardatirion - ya wanna see a folded coin unfolded ?

    Folded


    Unfolded
     
  8. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    No more significance than a piece of chocolate! :kewl: Presumably, it would be carried or kept as a keep-sake as any love token would.

    GDJMSP - aww, but thats a weak one! Its only wafer thin! lol. I presume it is a French Agnel D'or, c. 1417? Sadly, the only reference I have is from Anglo-Gallic coins, so I can't be more specific. (I know, I know. Its just for fun!)
     
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Close, mouton d'or from around 1700 ;)
     
  10. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    Pretty close, considering I was using an Anglo-Gallic coinage book that only goes to the 1500's! :desk:
     
  11. De Orc

    De Orc Well-Known Member

    Ardatirion great coin thanks for sharing it with us :bow: I have to agree about the difficulty of finding true Scottish coins in any condition :D
     
  12. bgarg

    bgarg Senior Member

    Thanks for sharing this nice coin and it's very interesting story.

    Regards,
    Ballabh Garg
     
  13. bgarg

    bgarg Senior Member

    Very Interesting. Thanks for posting the links.

    Regards,
    Ballabh Garg
     
  14. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    I don't know if it is the case with the Scottish coins but one of the reasons for some pf the "bent" coins ws because they were struck on a rocker press which will impart an S shaped bend in the coin. This is most likely the source of most of the Massachusetts silver "witch pieces".
     
  15. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    Nope, this coin was, I believe, struck by a screw press.
     
  16. JeromeLS

    JeromeLS Coin Fanatic

    That is a really rare piece, but in that condition it's only a curiosity really, or a date filler. I've got one or two scottish coins from the period, but no merks so far.
     
  17. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    For $15, it was perfect for me. :smile I also have a 1695 bodle and a 1679 bawbee, both in significantly better condition.
     
  18. JeromeLS

    JeromeLS Coin Fanatic

    I've got a 1643 twenty pence in XF, a contempory forgery of a Charles I turner, and a 1679 bawbee in F....they are all quite hard to get though !
     
  19. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    Sorry, I missed your reply! I wasn't aware we were counting Scottish hammered. :rolleyes: I also have a Queen Mary sixpence (I haven't a Spinks with me, so I'll nail down attribution later) and a Charles I twenty pence, 1637-1642. I love these coins!
     
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