Featured [Feudal] A most tough set on its way...

In a recent thread initiated by @Greg Heinrich I wrote :

Well, it's here I think


This is the seller's pic of that very coin from a previous sale (not enough time to take pics today)

Demi écu, argent - 1669

Atelier de Trévoux
AN . MA . LVD . PRIN . SVPRE . DOMBA Buste drapé de 3/4 à droite
rosette DNS trefle ADIVTOR rosette A rosette ET . RED . MEVS 1672 Ecu d'Orléans couronné
13.45 gr - 33 mm
Ref : Divo Dombes # 222 (moins de dix ex. connus), PA # 5219

Anne Marie Louise de Bourbon, AKA La Grande Mademoiselle, was born to Gaston d'Orleans and Marie de Montpensier in 1627 CE. A few days after her birth her mother passed away and she became sole heir of the principality of Dombes. Until she'd been emancipated by her cousin Louis XIV "Le Roi Soleil" in 1650 CE, her father (and Louis XIV's uncle) Gaston d'Orleans ruled the Dombes as regent.

For those interested in reading a little more here's the Wikipedia page on the subject of the Dombes principality (in english) : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dombes

Anne Marie Louise coinage is abundant, especially 1/12 ecu also known as Luigini, which have been shamelessely copied by other rulers as they were very popular in the whole Middle East at the moment, purportedly because they featured a female bust on the obverse.

Other than that are liards, a rather crude billon coinage, usually struck on short flans (finding one with complete legends and date is quite unusual) that you can find by the million.



Liard, billon - 1669

Atelier de Trévoux
+ M . P . DOMBAR . D . MONTI. M couronné entre trois fleurs de lis dans un cercle
Rose DNS [ADIVT]OR MEVS 1669 Croix de l'ordre de Saint Esprit
0.61 gr
Ref : Divo Dombes # 240v

Some other very rare denominations exist, such as a gold sequin, and exceedingly rare ecus and 1/6 ecus

The demi écu is quite a big chunck of silver (size between half-dollar and dollar at 33/33.5 mm) with an impressive look to it.

As stated above the 1673 demi ecu is an easy one. I think at least one or two hundreds of them survive nowadays (yes, it seems very low, but remember there are only a few lunatics crazy enough to collect them )

All the others known to exist are key dates : I assume a total of about 20 examples are known to exist for 1665 (2 ; I mistakenly said unique previously), 1669 (<10), 1672 (<4) and 1674 (2).

1665 being out of reach at the moment, I will have to live with the set remaining incomplete, but I might be lucky...and I'm an optimistic guy...

Here are the others :


Demi écu, argent - 1672

Atelier de Trévoux
AN . MA . LVD . PRIN . SVPRE . DOMBA Buste drapé de 3/4 à droite
* DOMINVS * ADIVTOR . A . ET . REDE . MEVS 1672 Ecu d'Orléans couronné
13.49 gr
Ref : Divo Dombes # 223 (3 ex. connus), PA # 5220v, Boudeau # 1093



Demi écu, argent - 1673

Atelier de Trévoux
AN . MA . LVD . PRIN . SVPRE . DOMBA Buste drapé de 3/4 à droite
* DOMINVS (trèfle) ADIVTOR . A . ET . REDE . MEVS 1673 Ecu d'Orléans couronné
13.59 gr
Ref : Divo Dombes # 224, PA # 5220, Boudeau # 1093



Demi écu, argent - 1674

Atelier de Trévoux
AN . MA . LVD . PRIN . SVPRE . DOMBA Buste drapé de 3/4 à droite
* DOMINVS (trefle) ADIVTOR . A . ET . REDE . MEVS 1674 Ecu d'Orléans couronné
13.33 gr
Ref : Divo Dombes # 225 (2° exemplaire connu), PA # 5220v, Boudeau # 1093


Hope you enjoy them as much as I do (well not that much, I don't need more competition actually )

Q

Edited on march 14, 2021 to reload lost images

 

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All out of my collecting realm, but all look right nice to me.

 

Here is a 1665 for you.

 

Nice! I really like the toning on it.

 

Nice write up!

 

Congrats Q those are awesome. Great write up as well.

 

Very interesting and congratulations on the new additions to your Dombes Ecu collection.
Dombes seems to be a very specialized area. Maybe one day you will find another example of the 1665 for your collection.

For interest, these two examples of the 1669 date were auctioned in the recent past by Heidelberger Münzhandlung and Rauch.

 

nice score Q! i collect and have several coins of the French royalty, but none of this gal i don't believe. i concentrated on kings, queens and Hapsburgs descendants. i have shamefully neglected them as of late.

 

Congrats, Q

 

Wow !
Thank you @Severus Alexander, that's a nice example of this rare coin, despite the "flaw" on the last numeral in the date

Q

 

Thank you @Eduard. I was aware of those two as I keep records of everything from Dombes being auctioned. I was able to get my example from a fellow collector who acquired the Heidelberger one

Q

 

I'm happy to bump this old thread since a star alignement played in my favor last week with a 1665 example popping up at auction just for me
I couldn't let it go and bid as much as needed to put my hands on it. It's the only example known apart (with one p ) from that of the Bibliothèque nationale de France

Here's the seller's pic before I get a chance to show off a group shot



Happy Q

 

Wow, incredible score, congratulations!

4 years ago in the same thread you said you were an optimistic guy, it looks like that karma paid off.



John

 

While my intereste in modern coins is low, this thread brings up one point I find quite interesting.

How do you explain the rarity of other dates and the large number of these? In ancients, this might mean that a hoard was found consisting of this one date while the others chance to exist mixed in with other coins. In other cases we know there was a need for a huge number of coins to fill a specific need (a wartime payroll, tribute to a victor over you etc.). In some cases it is known that a change was made in metal content so many of the better ones were melted. Have you researched the reason behind the 'easy' 1673?

 

Way to go, Q!!!

 

Fantastic writeup and assemblage, @Cucumbor! Congratulations on a seriously major coup.
Meanwhile, this is the most in-depth treatment of anything this late in the series that I've ever seen. Very enlightening ...not least for someone who gets lost some time in the 14th century (where's the 'embarrassed' imojee?). ...The coins really give you a sense of what was literally, by this point, the 'ancien regime.' It's bracing to be confronted, so eloquently, with how much of the feudal ethos was still firmly in place.

 

Congratulations Q You will go down as the master collector of Dombes coinage.

I also like all the French Provincial/ Feudal coinage The coinage from Burgundy/ Namur/ Bretagne/ Bar/ Arles/ Artois truly amazing......
The GGB fr. Auctions are great/ their grading is upto CNG/ Nomos/ Lansky/ Kunker standards.

 

I see what you did there !

Anyway, congratulations on the fantastic acquisition! I'm sure it must feel incredible to complete a set you've been working towards for so many years with such a rare coin. I know nothing about these coins, besides what I learned from your writeup, but I'm still eagerly awaiting your group photo!

I hope I'm not derailing your thread, but I also have a good reason to be happy, as I've just won a coin which might be the fourth known example of its kind with this reverse type:

Claudius II (268-270), Antoninianus, Smyrna mint, second officina.
Obverse: IMP C M AVR CLAVDIVS AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from behind; two dots beneath;
Reverse: VIRTV-TI AVG, Virtus standing right, holding spear pointing up in right hand and shield which rests on ground in left hand; SPQR in exergue;
RIC - , RIC V Online 825

 

Nicely done Q!

 

I don't

The fact is records from the Trevoux mint tell about the large amount of demi écus minted that year. An hypothesis is after the production of luigini (1/12th écu) had stopped, a certain amount of silver bullion remained at the mint and would be struck on the occasion of the nomination of a new head (I have no evidence of that, other than I've read it somewhere)

An other fact is only 1669 was known as other year of production in the reference books from the 19th century (i.e. Mantellier, i.e. Poey d'Avant), but they didn't mention the relative rarity/frequence of either date. 1665, 1672 and 1674, to my knowledge, have been mentioned for the first time in 2004 by Jean Paul Divo in what is considered now the reference book for the Dombes coinage. However, by that time, Mr Divo only counted the specimens in public collections and/or big auctions he knew of. A certain number of examples were/are in more obscure collections (some were already in mine at the date of parution that he didn't know about).

1673 examples are offered at auction at least twice a year (there is one very nice example at the moment I write these lines
1669 is seen once every three to five years as an average (as with every rare coin, one often sees the same example offered)
I've seen 1672 only once in 2012 (and the same again in 2014)
I've never seen 1674 auctioned (mine was privately acquired)
And to finish with, the only example minted in 1665 offered is the one above, sold last week by CGB

Q