Heritage auctions sell fake coin ?

A few things....

1. I have no idea about the OP's coin as I have never actually seen one in person. I think the hardest thing to do with something like that is to put it into context. It is not a cash coin meant for any other reason than presentation. As a unique piece of that nature, judging whether it is "authentic" is somewhat tricky. Is it an authentic piece created as an example/presentation piece? Could easily be. Is it a piece that was meant for circulation thereby having the characteristics of 99% of cash coins? Absolutely not. You have to have some reference for what you are trying to present or represent and they have presented a case for it. What evidence is there to refute it?

2. Cash coins are difficult because they are cast. They can easily be made to look like the originals.

3. Having spent years going through thousands and thousands of cash coins, I still can't tell all the time what is legit. You can read all of the books you want or buy as many coins as you want from reputable sellers or have the best expert in the world tell you what to look for, the only way to become a really good judge of these coins is to look at thousands of them and get a feel for what a real cash coin looks like, feels like and most important, what your initial impression is of the coin's presence.

4. I did not bid on any of the latest cash coins offered at Heritage. I did not feel "comfortable" enough with any of them to place a bid. Some were out of my realm (like the OP's coin), while I felt none of the others were easily judged as legit without me viewing them in person. I would not try to tell you if any of them were authentic or not based on a picture, but I didn't feel comfortable enough with the pictures to attempt to add them to my personal collection. My only comment for Heritage would be that some of the pictures were upside down and some were rotated, that didn't help.

 

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From what I see on reply back from chinese coin forums . those two coin are not authentic piece created as an example/presentation piece that Made in back ( 1854 ) , But Made in Modern . But heritage description Qing Dynasty brass "Engraved Master" 1000 Cash ND (1854) Choice XF . if those description mean anything to you .

 

Perhaps it would be more productive to call the HK office of Heritage. Their phone #s are here. They should be familiar with the offerings company wide.

https://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-hong-kong-office.s

 

Yes from time to time it can happen once in a blue moon. That said my point still stands that with a TPG graded coin or a coin from Heritage the reputations they have built far outweigh internet comments. Could it end up being fake sure, I don't know those well enough to comment, but the burden of proof is on it being fake IMO.

Between PCGS, ANACS, and NGC one if not all three of them should probably do those types now. PCGS and NGC even have offices in China now

 

The US Tpg's have slabbed fakes before and will again.Knowledge on your subject is the way to go.

 

ANACS already certifies them.

 

Here is an example from the China Numismatic Museum. It is a 10 Cash and is from a different province, but you can at least compare styles on your piece.



This is an example of the 100 cash, also from the CNM, that was circulated.

 

Well then heritage actions should send those two to ANACS for Certified , I can pay the certification fee if they come back in genuine .

 

Send it yourself to ANACS after talking with Heritage. You don't need them to be the middle man unless they insist on it for a refund if fake

 

That fine too If ANACS certification those , but think heritage actions should send some one look into those two coin again before do anything those.

 

Of course, but like you said, this is the internet, and misinterpretation is rampant. Too many already place too much faith in TPGs or others in general (as opposed to doing for themselves), so there's no harm in pointing out that no matter how careful one may be, there's always the exception.

 

The top TPGs have earned that faith. But yes this is the internet and more than once someone has been caught trashing auctions to buy something cheaper. Lot's of hidden motives. That said the TPGs earned the position of having to be proven wrong. Heritage earned the position of having to be proven fake.

I can just remember far far to many this is a fake coin or slab threads that weren't

 

Mistakes happen....no one is perfect!!! But I don't believe that an auction house with their reputation would knowingly try to sell fakes. The downside in loss of customers and confidence for outweighs any financial benefit.

Sam Spiegel at HA is a very helpful and reasonable person. I know he recently attended their Hong Kong auction and I've been in touch with him regarding my coins. He can arrange for submission of your purchases for certification and their own fee is minimal (about $8-10 only).

I suggest you write directly to him and he will sort it out.

One thing I would mention here is that HA do have access to some very unique and high quality coins that you will hardly ever see on other auction sites. This is one of the reasons why many participants on forums would readily declare it a fake. I would stay positive and have it certified. You know your money is safe anyway!!

Good luck and keep us all updated on the outcome.

 

I had a similar situation with HA some years ago.
I bid on and won a scarce latin american 8 reales (9K bid). Luckily, I had the foresight to ask ask HA to submit the coin to NGC. It came back counterfeit. Major disappointment. On the plus side HA was very forthcoming they re-imbursed the full cost including all fees, and even currency conversion losses.
You should ask HA to submit the coin for you.

 

Thanks, so sometimes that's (???) Do happen , i will ask HA submit coin for me .

 

Yes, It happened with that particular coin I bought at their auction.
They sent in in for encapsulation, and as I recall they also consulted with an expert in the particular series. Both said counterfeit. I recovered all my money so all was well. It can happen, yes. HA are very good, but are not experts in every single field of numismatics, and that was a very well made fake. Only experts could tell.

 

I just call heritage actions today tell them about my concerns , I Tell them don't ship the coin yet hold the coin and let some one look it again or submit to the TPG grading , and they will email me back with any information about those two coin.

 

I've just had 11 coins certified by NGC and returned through Heritage. Cost me $35 each plus a one off charge of $8 for invoice processing. I thought it was very reasonable and is easily recovered by the increase in value of a single coin.

 

YE THE PRICES YOU PAY IS REASONABLE , ALL I NEED NOW IS IF THEY CAN CERTIFIED THOSE TWO COIN " authentic " NOT COME BACK " counterfeit ".

 

Heritage has send those two coin to NGC, but today it come back in Ineligible Type . Right now I am trying a severs specialist with Chinese ancient coins to authenticate those two coin . It costs me small fee and few days .