More Greek vases. Another excuse to veer off topic.

It's interesting because I come from the other direction. I'm very familiar with art auctions, but not coin auctions. There are lots of subtle differences, like meaningful estimates.

 

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I see this statement as needing two slight modifications:
"The informed buyer, for whom cost is a consideration, bases his/her maximum bid on the hammer price plus associated fees."

Red: Any sale will have some (few/many?) bidders who do not understand or allow for the fees.

Blue: Some bidders simply do not care what something costs, it is just necessary to obtain what they want. Today, my wife paid $1.49 for a lunch item that was $1.19 last week. That $.30 increase was a large to us as an additional $3 million would be to a multi billionaire individual or museum representative bidding with benefactor funds. The old saying is, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." How many lots are purchased by those who had no reasonable limit?

 

i love those vases, but could never afford one. i really can't understand how such items aren't considered cultural property when stuff like coins are under attack. and while l would like to own one, i'd prolly feel like a thief if i had it...call me sinbad, baby

 

They are! And quite a few have been returned by museums recently. Museums are usually quite cautious buyers these days.

 

All bidders care at some margin. If you get two determined buyers, prices can soar ... but not infinitely. It's interesting that a high proportion of $100m+ pictures are sold privately, because sellers and their agents believe that there's one buyer who will pay megabucks, but not two.

You are right about a proportion not knowing how the fees work. And even if they know in general terms, the tiered fees at Christie's are very confusing, and they use symbols next to the lot number for extra charges, including different levels of sales tax on the lot as well as the premium, and resale rights.

 

well, i don't think museums shouldn't be able to have such items to display and show folk, but as far as sitting in a persons home for their own viewing, no. no matter how wealthy or high ranking!

 

Some people feel the same about coins! I know what you mean, but museums have thousands of vases, many in store and many barely noticed by most visitors. I love them, but I'm often almost alone with vases, even in the most crowded museums.

 

well, there's them peeps, then there's us(more elbow room) yeah, i know a lot of museums have boku stuff in storage and really what they need to do is give it to me and you cause we love it!..

 

There are estimated to be 100,000+ ancient Greek vases in existence.

I doubt there are more than 100 museums in the world exhibiting 10 vases or more. Most in museums are collecting dust down in the basement and will be for decades or centuries without ever being shown.

Most of the vases in museums were either donated by private collectors, or bought with money donated by private collectors. Private collectors are what make these vases valuable and thus protected for posterity. Private collectors (along with religious organizations) were the ones who preserved these works of art from ancient times until the last 200 years or so when public museums were started.

All these same remarks apply to coins but even more so in that there are 100s of millions of ancient coins, and museums hate exhibiting them even more (too small and the public does not care). Ancient coins would have been melted for their metal value long ago without private collectors. Many still are when they are found in countries with backwards laws.

John

 

I've thought about this issue fairly often, and I agree 100% with this response.

Very rare and historical artifacts should always be exhibited in museums, but if most artifacts are going to be consigned to a closet, gathering dust, they should be sold to collectors who will value and prize them.

While I generally agree with Doug's observations, Nerva's post is correct -- even with two determined buyers who may have no budget constraints, there is a point at which even those two will understand that they're overpaying.

 

I have noticed this when I have visited some European museums. There are items that are tucked away in dark corners that we would build an entire building around in the US! Of course I understand most of these museums have more treasures than space.

To me the most frustrating thing is this...

Museums, please separate and properly attribute these!

...and they think collectors are the problem

 

Yes, and why should a museum want an entire hoard with dozens of the same coins?