Grades for Morgan dollars.

I have been thinking about this. I recently have seen the new Coin World magazine for July 2017. It has an 1880 S Morgan graded MS69 PL. I have seen this coin and others like it given this grade. I can't believe it! How can any educated grader give this grade to any Morgan? I personally think after looking at this coin and others with "inflated" grades should be graded like this. There are no other coins with marks in the fields and a rev. With clash marks that would warrant a grade like this.it makes me sad to to see that NGC And PCGS would throw their standards out the window to accommodate these people who obviously have a lot of money to hype up a grade on a coin that shouldn't be higher than a 66+ . That is my opinion

 

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Clashing has nothing to do with a coin's grade.

I know the coin you're talking about - that's not hard, there is only one Morgan in MS69PL (been in the same slab for at least the last 12 years and three separate Heritage appearances) - and I'd personally call it 68 for too many small marks on the obverse. But it's clearly one of the finest Morgans known anywhere. It's not clashed, though....

Look at it in high resolution, and tell me it's 66+:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/morgan-dol...1-5744.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Drool, every time.

 

That coin could be dated 2017 and still be better than a 66+

 

Truth.

That said, I don't think this is any reflection on the OP's grading skills, but rather an illustration of the pitfalls of making grading decisions based upon one set of small images in print/online. I haven't seen the relevant issue, but I kind of doubt CW is going to be publishing images large enough for an informed grading decision.

 

I haven't seen the issue either and can't seem to find their cover photo online. I would be very interested to see what photo they used and how quality the print was. I did a quick scan of the pops to see if maybe a new one had popped up and there is still only the one that is PL, did find it interesting that all the 69s are from very early in the series though.

 

It has has a couple clashes on the rev. One left of the wings and one on the rev right above the head. I know the rev is not a real determining factor in the overall grade but it does factor. And throwing out grades like 69 and 68 for that matter is not conducive for the overall market.

 

At the risk of seeming unkind, I have to suggest you learn where clashing manifests on the reverse of a Morgan Dollar before making that assertion.

 

And after looking at your pics from Heritage, there are clash marks on the obverse. Look on the neck and to the upper left in the field by the head. Not mention the carbon spots and die scratches across the face. I am not saying this isn't a great coin cause it is, but doesn't warrant that grade.

 

How so? There may be one or two that is a bit of a head scratcher but those grades aren't "thrown" around by either PCGS or NGC. PCGS has less then a 1000 68s across the entire series and only 10 69s and they have graded well over 3 million of them. Almost all of those belong to the 79-S, 80-S, and 81-S as well. If you exclude those three dates you have 1 69 in the series and a handful of 68s.

Denying those coins their rightful grades is what wouldn't be conducive to the market

 

Your not being unkind, everyone has an opinion. And just to put my last two cents in, I just think that grades have been inflated for the last 6-10 years from these graders. They are trying to find ways to keep the hobby interesting and I get it. But this shouldn't be done at this cost. If you really think about what makes a coin a 67,68,69 or even 70 , it takes "perfect coins" to do this according the standards set up. A 67 is a great coin. Barely any marks , good fields and great luster. Then you get to 68. I mean come on we can't lower our standards when it comes to grading. we might as well just get rid of the grading system if we are going to throw those numbers around. If you think about it, just about every silver eagle that is minted can be graded a 68 or better. We have better tech. To do so. Back then they didn't. And that A coin from 1880 with marks like I have stated can get the same grade is crazy.

 

Well, my point was that clashing artifacts are a matter of fact, not opinion. Morgans clash in specific places, and none of the locations you've offered are in those known locations. Here is the best reference I know of regarding how and where Morgans clash:

http://www.vamworld.com/Attribution+101#DC

 

https://coins.ha.com/itm/morgan-dol...-5744.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515#

In this picture, it looks AU on a huge monitor at any levels of magnification, from 15% to 100%.

And I mean absurdly AU on both sides.

 

You need some grading classes then

 

I think maybe OP is using the term "clash" to describe contact marks he sees and not actual clashes

 

The surface shows to be broken with rubs on the high points, and on both sides.

I'm sure there are lots of things I need, but, that isn't MS69.

 

There's no AU morgans sitting in PCGS or NGC MS 69 slabs. Again a grading class would probably be very helpful to you

 

Those pictures show a coin that to call it MS is dubious at best. If that's not the case, somebody needs a photography class.

THAT, what is shown, ain't a MS69 no matter how much arm dope somebody smokes.

 

More like someone needs a grading class, or to be less obvious with their crusade trying to degrade the TPGs....

 

Of course you're absolutely right. I don't see rub marks all over the high points of both sides of this coin. I see absolutely no broken luster. After considering your very logical arguments and looking at the pictures with my eyes closed, it really should be a MS 75 PL, value $22,780,420,690,710,OIC,U81,24U.37.