Define "Cleaning."

Oh heavens Did your pinky curl back in whilst gasping for air? Wouldst thou grace us with thine knowledge- lubrication?

 

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One could only hope that you speak literally, and not figuratively. Or is that the other way around??? Just too "BREATHTAKINGLY IGNORANT" to know for sure.

 

You are more than welcome to make up whatever definitions you wish. However if you lubricate your fingers with anything, I don't want you to touch my coins. Happy to hear you have patents, I do too but have never seen fit to mention it.

 

My response was intended to answer a believed constructive query, not to entertain a pompous human with gnat-like tendencies, believed to spout unsupported hyperbole.

When one challenges the credibility of anothers' verbal expressions, they seemingly are requesting relative credentials. I merely supplied same, requesting similar response from a challenger. I'm pleased that you found a reason to mention you've patents. I hope they also are fulfilling technological "utility" patents, as my public "patents" and proprietary "records of invention". These documents disclose unique applied new technologies and practical devices, rather than theoretical ornamental design or plant patents.

The terms/definitions I presented are believed to be found in common dictionary references, at least in my domicile.

The thread to which I responded, I believe questioned what is cleaning. I presented a theoretical/experienced verbal understanding, and applied technology, which included the use of finger-tips. The human finger-tips have articulating dermal papillae, when properly utilized can have the effect of lapping or scuffing, dependent upon the interface.

I apologize if my response/post was found offensive, as it was intended for enlightenment to the seemingly uninformed.

I trust this response is also taken as an answer, not having an unintended offensive effect.

I believe we agree that I'll never touch your coins.

JMHO

 

It's the whole "lubrication" thing. It is NOT accepted practice ANYWHERE in numismatic art or science. It just may be the single worst piece of advice I've ever seen on this system or anywhere else. No lubrication EVER on the fingers; not wet, not dry. NONE! EVER!

If you have exceptionally oily skin, and only then, perhaps nitrile gloves are okay. But for MOST people, the LEAST INJURIOUS thing they can put on their coins is their fingers, with proper edge-handing technique.

@imrich, where on earth do you GET these notions???

 

I love CT! I too hope to learn something every day.

I'm grateful that all the very successful members (in their own field of expertise as many tell us) give advice and share their expertise about how to clean coins.

PS I suggest all of you keep your fingers off your coins - lubricated or not - unless you are engaged in fraudulently altering them with the oils in your skin or the "products" you are using.

 

Excuse me if I dissent from the possibility of taking ANY ADVICE WHATSOEVER from @imrich. He may know a good many things, but his numismatic IQ is minuscule.

He's like the Odubel Herrera (Phillies' center fielder) of numismatics. He has some impressive skills, but his "baseball IQ" is in the dumper.

 

V. Kurt Bellman, posted: "Excuse me if I dissent from the possibility of taking ANY ADVICE WHATSOEVER from @imrich. He may know a good many things, but his numismatic IQ is minuscule."

What? He is a knowledgeable technical specialist with patents!

 

Oh yeah, I forgot. That means decades of universally held and taught numismatic practice now have to yield to his, his, his ... what? Hubris? Willingness to unashamedly spout misinformation?

If he has something new and revolutionary to bring to the hobby, let him present it at a national convention, like Rick Snow's proposed grading system last year at Anaheim. THIS SITE is no place for such off-the-mainstream ideas.

 

Why not? I haven't thoroughly read the rules for the forum, mainly because I didn't have to sign anything, but does it state in there that the only information to be shared is stricktly to be only that which has been...what? What constitutes as non-off-the-mainstream? Didn't you earlier post that you study mainstream trends and run swiftly in the opposite direction?
Is it not the sharing of non-mainstream ideas that conceive innovative practices? I would agree with the statement that such information should be preceded by "this is not common practice, but I've found that..." but to completely abort it as reckless is about as intelligent as just assuming everything you read on the internet, or a forum for that matter, is fact. I'm sure everyone that takes this hobby seriously is a believer in due diligence.

 

Kurt, thanks for asking. If you'd read some of my earlier posts 7-8 years ago, you would have learned that as the elder of 5 children, when my father became disabled/institutionalized at my age of 9 years, my mother medically disabled, I became the family "Father"/parent, without a home.

67 years ago I attended a Catholic school, at age 9, across from a coin shop. As the family parent I negotiated with the Jewish coin shop owner in a multi-million resident metro. I'd attempt to supply juvenile/adult labor for his and others businesses in exchange for housing, etc.. We and others had already lived in ghettos, so were accustomed to spartan existence.

We moved to a 1 room empty garage/dwelling without the bare essentials, but it had a roof/walls for shelter with a located fuel oil space heater. A "local" gave me a Doberman as a companion/protector when delivering/collecting on my acquired paper routes. When needed, and as time allowed, I worked in the coin shop, stores, homes, Synagogues, supplying services/supplies as requested.

I learned much, and was taught business acumen, as a quiet youth who generally wasn't seen, but listened attentively. As a creative taupe haired gentile youth who excelled in whatever, my "services" were desired and requested' by shop owners who appreciated, and taught/acquired various services/products.

I never joined an "organization", but spent many hours learning techniques, buying/selling for my numismatic associates. Thus my involvement in numerous coin firms bankruptcy proceedings.

From your stated understandings of practices, I'm certain you'd be appalled by techniques in the restoration/conservation processes utilized when converting encrusted salvage recovery product to "mint state".

My education in life is mostly practical, as I enjoy "practicing"/teaching, which may differ from yours.

I'd appreciate receiving a P.M. which'd explain your accumulation of a seeming general knowledge dearth in communicative/technical skills. Your language, as mine, appears to differ from normalcy.

I haven't any apprehension to learning from you or others as stated in the idiom "mouth of babes".

Thanks for your query/indulgence, which may evoke an understanding of our perceived differences.

Respectfully, Rich

 

V. Kurt Bellman, posted: "THIS SITE is no place for such off-the-mainstream ideas."

Shame on you! There is only ONE GOD on CT and I don't think you are that old.

IMO, the only thing that should not be tolerated around here are nonsense posts by ! Most of us are probably open to all opinions/suggestions. If they might be harmful, the numismatists around here can suggest corrections.

@imrich Please forgive me for removing your life history from your quote below. I owe you a quarter.

imrich, posted: "I'm certain you'd be appalled by techniques utilized in the restoration/conservation processes utilized when converting encrusted salvage recovery product to "mint state".

That's 100% true! I'll add that most of us would also be appalled by the techniques used by the majority of coin dealers and collectors to make their non-salvage coins pretty.

I've seen both silver and gold sea salvage from several wrecks. IMHO, virtually all of it (even the gold) shows signs of conservation although much of it is considered original "Mint State" by market standards. However, I've NEVER seen one single piece of salvaged silver that is even close to mint state!

 

When you expose "newbs" to wild-eyed non-standard recommendations, you are aiding and abetting the ruination of those newbs' holdings, and that is just plain irresponsible. This hobby has standards of care that have survived generations of collectors. Your attempt to mislead those newbs is ridiculous. Keep them to yourself.

 

Wow, domicile, I only have a house!

[/QUOTE]I apologize if my response/post was found offensive, as it was intended for enlightenment to the seemingly uninformed.[/QUOTE]

Not offensive, just pompous.

[/QUOTE]I believe we agree that I'll never touch your coins.

JMHO[/QUOTE]
Thank you

 

V. Kurt Bellman, posted: "When you expose "newbs" to wild-eyed non-standard recommendations, you are aiding and abetting the ruination of those newbs' holdings, and that is just plain irresponsible. This hobby has standards of care that have survived generations of collectors. Your attempt to mislead those newbs is ridiculous. Keep them to yourself."

If you have directed this to me: Your attempt to mislead those newbs is ridiculous.
Please site two examples that back up your charge. Otherwise, I'll suggest on this subject.

I should not need to remind you of anything. As you must know, scrubbing coins with baking soda was a standard recommendation in your lifetime - remember that?

Changes have/are occurring in this hobby/business since you were a kid and will continue. That includes changes in storage, terminology, tastes, etc. Only the "good stuff" and off-the-wall "new" stuff that turned out to be "good stuff" after all has stood the test of time.

IMO , folks like you and others here should invite questions and "new stuff" (rather than try to shut it down) so you can educate all of us.

 

What part of suggesting "lubricated fingers" strikes you as okay?!?!? It's asking for damage. And no, it wasn't aimed at you, but at @imrich.

 

No, I most certainly do NOT remember any such thing. I'm 62, not 122 years old. And I didn't need to "find out the hard way" that vinyl flips are garbage, either. If they damaged photographic materials, and they did, I didn't want them anywhere near coins, either. All my best prints, transparencies, and negatives are in acid-free archival storage, and so are most of my most valued coins. (I'm really not interested in toning per se.)

 

Experience is the father of wisdom. Prudence and due diligence can save a person much pain and heartache- so if it took a "newb" a coin to learn those threads of common sense... it could be a lot worse. The funny thing about common sense today is- it's not very common. Trust, but verify.
Also, if you state that something is wrong, but cannot provide the correct information... you are complaining. You are doing none a service, but yourself, by ridiculing someone's experiences. If you have this knowledge of generations of collecting, but prefer to scoff and weightlessly argue than share it, that's even more ridiculous than just whining. @imrich was simply sharing his topical experiences and, whether the methods are acceptable by your community's standards or not, I thought that was acceptable here.

 

All that's very nice BUT ... our FIRST, if not ONLY, duty to new collectors is to steer them to industry-standard materials and practices. Then, later, once they have more experience, they can experiment.