Can you identify this Sun Yat Sen coin???

Physical description 18.7 grams silver 1.5 inch by 1/8 inch

 

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A very interesting piece, with a "1 yuan" denomination bracketing the bust, but not listed in the Standard Catalog of World Coins. It is undated, which was common for coins of the first few years of the Republic.

The legend at the top of the obverse very loosely translates as "Father of the Country, China Teacher", and the reverse legend loosely translates as "Memorial to the Father of the Country".

The reverse border brings to mind the British Trade Dollar which circulated into the early 20th Century.

My guess is that despite bearing a denomination, it is a medal honoring Dr. Sun Yat Sen. If I had to guess, I would say it was probably issued between his death in 1925 and the flight of Chiang Kai Shek's Kuo Min Tang Nationalist government to Taiwan in 1949-50.

Genuine 1 yuan coins of the early Republic years were crown-sized (38-42mm) and generally weighed slightly less than 27g; matching the Japanese Yen and other silver crowns of the pre-WW II era.

 

It does measure 38 mm (about 1.5 inches) and it weighs 18.7 grams,,,

Countless hours of searching online and I haven't been able to see another picture of it.

AND he's the father of china, first president,,,

Did I hit the lottery on this one?

 

More than 30% too light to be a genuine 1 yuan coin.

More likely you hit one number on a six-number draw.

 

I think its a fake. 1. its underweight. 2. At the top of the obverse, 12 oclock, the rim seems to mesh into the field. 3. the meander pattern on the reverse is unusually thick at around 5 oclock.

I wouldn't buy it.

 

Fantasy pieces/medals are not really "fakes", as they don't imitate any real coin.

Me neither!

 

This coin is a counterfeit. It is way too light to be genuine (or silver at all), and the details are not consistant with genuine coin. The most obvious flaw is the right ear which is floating in the field. This is evidence of a struck counterfeit made from transfer dies. That and the other mushy features, including his moustache, coupled with the obvious tooling make it clear that this is a fantasy piece. You haven't been able to find any reference to it because it was never real. As such, you have not won the lottery, I just hope you didn't pay anything for it.

 

True, true. But I wasn't quite familiar enough with the type to definitely say its a fantasy piece.

 

The Sun Yat sen coin is smaller then my 1921 O Yuan Shih Kai silver dollar at 20 grams, but bigger then my 12.1 gram 1942 liberty.

The material among the three coins mentioned all appears to be the same, i.e. silver.

The photo that I posted was lit with a flourescent light bulb, giving the coin a blueish look. There is nice toning in this coin.

hope this helps,,,

 

You state "the most obvious flaw,,," But if it's a flaw from a transfer die, where do I find a picture of the original that this conterfeit coin was copied from?

 

None of that information changes the fact that you do not. have a coin.

The fact that it isn't listed in the Standard Catalog of World Coins isn't conclusive, as they do make mistakes.

But couple that with the facts that:

• You haven't found it anywhere on the web
• No one else has found it anywhere on the web
• It is legended "1 Yuan", but it is 30% too light to be a silver yuan
• It does not have the legend "Republic of China" in the manner found on all genuine Republic coins from 1912-present

and the conclusion is obvious.

Without a specific gravity test, I'll remain unconvinced that it is silver, but if it is coin silver (.900), it's worth $3.50-4 at today's silver price; maybe a little more to a collector of Chinese medals.

 

First thing, instead of saying that it looks similar to a silver coin, chances are that usually newcomers into this hobby believe that silver, nickel-copper, steel all look similar except for the different hues of "grey" in it.

To make it more painful for you to hear, chances are that never do counterfeits use any silver in it unless you are dealing with ultra high quality counterfeits which in this case is not. If you take a magnet and if it's magnetic, whether if it's strongly magnetic or weakly magnetic, you can discount the fact that it had any silver in it in the first place.

And you know very well that if you are dealing with Chinese coins, there is an extremely high probability of a newcomer getting hit by a counterfeit coin.

 

magnetic, wow ya learn something everyday. So then my Yuan Shih Kai silver dollar is probably a counterfeit as well, as it is magnetic too. Well atleast the prospector round, the 1967 1/2 crown and the 1942 liberty aren't magnetic,,,

So then I guess sotheby's is out of the question,,, so here's my eBay ad,,,
RARE Sun Yat sen Father of China counterfeit commemorative coin. SO RARE I CAN GUARANTEE YOU WON'T FIND ANOTHER LIKE IT --- ANYWHERE!!!

 

mention that it is minted in rare magnetic silver

 

What I wanna know is how could you guys tell from a photograph that it isn't silver?

 

I don't know about anyone else, but with the variations in lighting and camera quality, I can't ever be sure about the metal just from a photo. In this case the weight/diameter was a dead giveaway.

 

OK, Then why would anyone go through the trouble of counterfeiting a medalion? Or was it struck to be passed off as yet another "new style" 1 yuan coin?

Wonder when they're gonna counterfeit a $10 silver George Bush coin?

 

Why counterfeit a medalion? Why counterfeit anything in the first place?

Because people like you contribute to profit, regardless of it makes a profit from 1 cent to a bigger sum!

 

Nah, they're too busy making 1906 silver eagles (and no that date is NOT a typo. They actually made false dies from a 1986 silver eagle and altered the date to 1906. Now they are happily making them out of the "magnetic silver" and selling them on eBay as real and often getting $15 to $20 apiece for them.)

 

Have seen the real one!

I have seen the real one, around 39mm diameter, 27 grams pure silver, 2.5mm thick. Any thoughts experts?