1928 D Penny with maybe toning and letter errors/sorry not sure of official terms yet

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by Fee, Jun 20, 2017.

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  1. Fee

    Fee Member

    I have a 1928 D Penny with beautiful tones of purples, blues, and it's in good condition considering. The word Trust has issues in it and the LI in liberty. 20170620_030844.jpg 20170620_031003.jpg 20170620_031315.jpg 20170620_031031.jpg 20170620_030844.jpg Any advice is greatly appreciated.
     
    Fee, Jun 20, 2017
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  3. Сolton

    Сolton Member

    What kind of advice do you need? (value, condition, where to sell, etc.?)
     
    Сolton, Jun 20, 2017
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  4. Fee

    Fee Member

    All of the above. Is it an error in Trust and Liberty? Toning?
     
    Fee, Jun 20, 2017
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  5. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    The toning in this case is secondary toning, not original toning. The coin was cleaned (polished), and developed that iridescence as a result. As such, I'd say it's worth about a quarter as-is.

    Numismedia trends has VG8 at $0.32 and F12 at $0.44. Just off the cuff, without looking at Photograde or such, I'd put it somewhere around one or the other of those grades in terms of detail, but one would then deduct a bit for the cleaning.

    Spotting cleaned coins versus original takes practice. Eventually you'll develop an eye for it, but it takes some time. Looking at lots and lots of them helps.

    Iridescent toning can be attractive, even if (as in this case) it's not original. But to be worth any kind of premium, it has to be original, and not a result of an old cleaning.
     
    lordmarcovan, Jun 20, 2017
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  6. Fee

    Fee Member

    As far as grading is it not an XF or VF? More than the rim is visible. Just curious. Seems nicer especially since it's from 1928. Also what about the letter in trust and Liberty? Thanks for advice.
    Very Fine (VF) - A visibly nicer coin. High spots will show light, even wear. Various major features are visible. Lettering is all readable.

    Extra Fine (XF) - Slight wear will show on the highest points of the main devices. Words are sharp and easily readable. All details are clearly defined.
     
    Fee, Jun 20, 2017
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  7. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    No. Not VF or XF, by a long shot.

    (You've also got some scratches on the reverse.)

    Hang on a sec- I'll go dig up Photograde for you...
     
    lordmarcovan, Jun 20, 2017
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  8. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Here are the Photograde examples. Scroll back to see the lower grades.

    I actually prefer the older ANA standards with line drawings more, but that will at least give you some idea. You can bookmark that resource for future reference. It has its shortcomings, as I mentioned, but it's better than the vague adjectival descriptions you quoted above. Are those from the Red Book? They too are better than nothing, but so vague you could drive a truck through the gaps, if you know what I'm sayin'.

    I stand by my earlier VG-F details assessment.
     
    lordmarcovan, Jun 20, 2017
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  9. Fee

    Fee Member

    Fee, Jun 20, 2017
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  10. Fee

    Fee Member

    Those grades are from the link you sent me.
     
    Fee, Jun 20, 2017
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  11. Fee

    Fee Member

    I understand I probably disagree a bit but I'm new so when I take them to a few places locally I'll have a better understanding. Thanks for your help.
     
    Fee, Jun 20, 2017
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  12. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    The toning may have occurred naturally, but that is still secondary toning.

    The coin was cleaned. It might have spent some time in an old folder after that.

    It is not dissimilar to the 1901 Indian cent on @messydesk's page, but I'm of the opinon that that particular coin has questionable color as well. (Though I agree that it does have the "old-folder" look.)
     
    lordmarcovan, Jun 20, 2017
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  13. alurid

    alurid Well-Known Member

    Welcome to Coin Talk, Fee. The coin you posted is well worn. I go by the cheekbone
    - jawbone separation for first look grading. A 1928 cent with that much wear should not have any toning on it. It should just have a Brown Patina. The reason it has toning is that it has been cleaned, and toning forms better on bare metal.
    I agree with all that "lordmarcovan" posted for you.
     
    alurid, Jun 20, 2017
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  14. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Yes, in the lower grades (below XF-AU or so), a cent like this should be brown under most environmental conditions. When you see colorful toning on a well-worn coin, it is almost always an indication of an old cleaning. Under almost all circumstances, you'll only see iridescent or colorful toning on AU and Mint State coins (like that Virginia quarter you posted earlier).

    And a lot of it has to do with the metallic composition of the coin. Old copper in low grade should be brown. Old silver in lower grade should be some shade of grey. If a low grade copper coin is too orange looking or a well worn silver coin is too white, and if either have colorful toning, it's usually a sign of an old cleaning.
     
    lordmarcovan, Jun 20, 2017
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  15. Fee

    Fee Member

    That makes sense thank you so much seriously. Appreciate it.
     
    Fee, Jun 20, 2017
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  16. Fee

    Fee Member

    Ok thank you so much for replying.
     
    Fee, Jun 20, 2017
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  17. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    For the record, that's not me. I do agree, however, that both the 1928 Lincoln and the 1901 Indian cent have been cleaned and have retoned. The Indian cent cleaning seems more egregious than that of the Lincoln, and it was probably polished rather than chemically cleaned. This will leave a shiny copper surface where it was able to be polished, and more of the original dark brown color in the crevices of the design and around the letters, where the polishing was ineffective. Souvenir Indian cent jewelry typically looks like this. The shiny bits will then acquire some sort of color from its environment -- usually brown, but sometimes more colorful.
     
    messydesk, Jun 20, 2017
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  18. RickO

    RickO Active Member

    Definitely agree with LordM..... cleaned and re-tarnished...the letters in TRUST are showing mechanical doubling... also not of value.
     
    RickO, Jun 20, 2017
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  19. Fee

    Fee Member

    20170620_113053.jpg 20170620_113224.jpg

    Here's better pics. The others had my flashlight on against a colorful tablecloth. Probably doesn't change y'alls opinion but it's more accurate.
     
    Fee, Jun 20, 2017
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  20. RickO

    RickO Active Member

    Definitely machine doubling on the letters in TRUST, and the previous determination of prior cleaning is correct. Thanks for the new pictures.
     
    RickO, Jun 20, 2017
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  21. Fee

    Fee Member

    Can you get rolled coins at a bank? Do they sell them? I want to get more.
     
    Fee, Jun 20, 2017
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