1889 CC what would you grade it?

Fake, sorry. Hope you didn't pay a bundle

 

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It's fake. The date doesn't even line up against the bottom hair curls. The 9 in particular is shifted way too far to the right.

 

Fake. Do not buy that date raw.

 

As everyone has said, it is fake. Look at the eagle. Notice how the surface is rough and fuzzy. That is usually a giveaway on nearly all of the Chinese die-struck counterfeits.

 

Is it struck or cast?

 

Did you guys miss post #14 where the OP told the backstory?

 

Struck. Most of the fakes coming out of China are struck. They really aren't casting them anymore.

 

Not only cleaned, surface looks odd. I too noticed the "9" in 1889 looking strange. Wouldn't touch it.

Authentic Chinese piece.

 

The pawnbroker claiming that he "has too much into it", leads me to believe that even though he knows it's fake, he is still trying to sell it to some sucker as real.
I have a problem with this.

 

If it's to good to be true, then it probably is. This is a perfect example of that. I agree with Morgandude. Never buy this date raw. You are just asking for trouble.

 

Although, I like your spirit!

 

I've bought many raw and made good money doing so. That statement should be qualified with "unless you have the skills to do so"

 

That is fair, although honestly if you have the skills to do so, you probably don't need someone else at that point to tell you.

 

I am not sure if he took it off the shelf or, not. He actually set it on the back counter after retrieving it from the floor.

 

No matter what he paid for it you can't sell a counterfeit as authentic
when you know it's a beat. He has to take the loss.
It shouldn't even be for sale.
So you are saying, by him putting it on the back counter, it is not for view or for sale? But after you leave, will he put it back in the front display case?
I doubt he "has that much into it". As they only pay a fraction of spot for silver.
"We're not a coin shop, we are a pawn shop. You want to sell your silver, it's 66-75% of current silver price."
Gold they test, but he bought the silver on spec. What's he out $10?
If he paid more than that because of the date rarity, he should have authenticated it before paying out. In his business he has to be aware of Chinese counterfeits.
It's not unreasonable to assume that some pawn brokers stretch the truth.

 

I would agree with that. A very experienced collector who knows Morgans well could easily buy that date, or the 93s raw. I am talking about someone who has real experience with the series.

 

Although I agree with you completely Michael. It seems that the Pawn shops have a different set of rules than a coin dealer. I have got into some pretty good discussions, with managers and sometimes owners.

They are able to get around the law because they don't label there coins with "1889 CC Morgan, or, US coin" they label them with 26g 9.25 Sterling silver or 22 carrot Gold etc. Then on your receipt, is another release of liability in case it comes back as Fake.
Regulating Pawn shops would be like trying to regulate Ebay. There just isn't enough time in the day. We will all ways have dishonest folks in this business,
being educated before you buy is our best defense.

 

I was going to make that qualification earlier, but I did not want to seem like an arrogant bastard in saying so (not saying you are).

I was at a show once, and I helped a dealer authenticate an 1893 S Morgan.

 

I understand with what you're saying P and G.
However, to me that would only exclude them from liability if they are selling that particular coin for $25-$30. (As just a silver coin and nothing special).
When they are trying to sell it for $600, then the other rules should apply about selling a known counterfeit as authentic.