A study of online marketing by Great Southern Coins

Not all coins they sell are perfect, or will grade, but that is the way coins are, period. If you go to a local auction, I would not expect all coins to grade straight. Sure, you have to know what to look for, but that is the same with EVERY seller of raw coins. I do not think they alter their pictures or anything, which is what I hear most often about them.

 

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You and I disagree on a fair bit, but here we're in agreement.

I suspect when I get home and strongly delve into my GSC packing lists and find the coins themselves where I have put them, most will be 1936-1942 proof singles, bought raw, now in NGC plastic, but we'll see.

 

A little while ago a 1932-D Lincoln cent sold at GSC for $51. The color looks blotchy and there's a gouge in Lincoln's beard. From a Great Collections auction last June a nice PCGS MS64 example sold for $59.

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/365954/1932-D-Lincoln-Cent-PCGS-MS-64-RD

Which one would you choose?

 

So neither of you will admit that GSC boosts the contrast & brightness in their photos?

 

Boosts, per se? No. Not to my eye and that of my devices. All photos have a quite normal D-max and D-min. I will agree they tend to crank the saturation on color, from what I've seen, including above. Colorful coins will seldom be part of my experience generally, though.

Oh, other than proofs, I know there's a business strike Walker I'm rather fond of in the mix.

 

As I sit here thinking, some of my GSC purchases were also proofs from the 1950's to be put into Capital Plastics 1950-1964 proof "single denomination" sets.

Speaking of which, I want to find a radical "Blue '62" nickel for one of those.

 

I'm not really sure, to be honest. I've bought a few gold toners from them that looked the same as their pictures in hand, but you had to get the light at just the right angle. See my earlier posted 1908 toner for an example. If the light is not right, it will not look like their pictures. BUT I can tell when a coin is damaged, cleaned, etc. I know what to look for, sure, but they don't hide the imperfections (in my opinion).

 

So you don't believe the customers who claim that the GSC photos hide problems that would cause the coin not to grade? Furthermore, this whole conversation started because a newbie was considering buying one of their raw coins. By definition, newbies don't have the numismatic education to decipher problem coins from problem free coins. This seller offers obvious problem free coins that are described as problem free with photos designed to hide the problem. Simply because you have the numismatic experience to avoid such coins, that does not eliminate the ethical problem for GSC.

Again, I'm not condemning their entire inventory and contrary to Bellman's claims, my opinion is not over the top. When a newbie tells me that they are considering a raw coin from GSC my advice will be to pass.

 

I don't think they claim a problem coin to be problem free. For example, on the gold indians I buy, I see they list some as AU or BU. I usually agree with their grade. Others do not have a grade attached. Those are usually the ones that are cleaned, etc. They do not claim them to be problem free, or any certain grade though. And I disagree with the statement that they intentionally hide problems with their pics. I have had a few customer say I do that too, which is not true. My latest one filed a claim against me for item not as described, saying it was an ex jewelry piece. Well, I looked at the auction I did, and yup, there it was, a picture of the solder spot on the rim, nice and clear for all to see. I also had it in the description as such. I've NEVER received a coin from them and been surprised by something I didn't see in the pictures.

 

Example: 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent Wheat Penny, Choice VF++/XF Key Date, ** Free Shipping!

Are the coins you are buying mostly intrinsic value coins? IMO, if a coin has a problem, it is incumbent upon the dealer/seller to divulge the problem in their listing. They don't have to provide the problem in the title (though I would), but they certainly must provide it in the description. Simply not providing an opinion on grade is not good enough.

 

I don't know enough about cent's to see what you see in that one. Eh, 90% of sellers just list a coin, and let the pictures do the talking.

 

They graded it VF/XF in the title. That is not a problem free coin, it has been cleaned or polished or both. Eh, 90% of E-Bay sellers have never sold a 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent.

Here is another one: 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent Wheat Penny, Highly Demanded Key Date, ** Choice VF++!

 

In 1985 Dr. Jerry Buss sold 15,000 1932-D Lincoln cents, after a failed effort at accumulating and trying to "corner the market" for reasons unknown. But I believe the glut of 1932-D coins all at once probably brought the price down. However, these were circulated coins.
And that MS-64 Red is quite stunning.

 

Before looking at your second example, I agree with your analysis on the first one.

Yup, second one too. What the...? I've never seen that effect.

 

That does not look obviously cleaned to me. Also, how else could he say it?

You are bidding on a RAW Coin.

We guarantee AUTHENTICITY ONLY!!!

We do not offer grades on raw coins, and we do not guarantee grades on raw coins. If you are looking for certified coins, we offer a wide selection of PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and ICG certified coins.

Click here to see our Certified Coins

If you are bidding on raw coins, we STRONGLY RECOMMMEND that you have knowledge of the coin industry, coin pricing, and coin grading before you bid.

To ensure customer satisfaction, we offer a 30 day unconditional return policy. Returns are not accepted after 30 days.

 

To me, both appear to be messed with in multiple ways, including artificial darkening to hide prior polishing.

 

I bet the guys from GSC think the coin is obviously cleaned. And you asked me "how else he could say it?" Instead of the 100 word qualifier he includes in his listing he could simply add "CLEANED" in his title.

 

This is the PNG Code of Ethics. They routinely violate at least two clauses.

If they had a graded Jefferson I needed I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them. And I'm a big proponent of caveat emptor most of the time, but I think what they do with their raw coins is deceptive and feeds into the stereotype that coin dealers are untrustworthy. I don't think they need to do it and that it hurts the hobby by targeting the new and uneducated collectors.

Their return policy is one of the best in the business and I've stated that before. I also remember some of the CU threads about this seller and my recollection was that most of the people bashing GSC were much more harsh than my criticism here.

 

As I've mentioned before, I have been watching them rather closely since they first appeared on my radar, a few months after Hurricane Katrina. Back then, pretty much everything they offered looked so nasty that I assumed they were buying flooded/corroded collections for pennies on the dollar and reselling them on Ebay. Thy didn't mention damage then, either. To my mind, ever since they've skated right at the sharp edge of morality without going past it. They're telling people, "Be informed!" and then catering to those who aren't.

@jwitten has an easier time of them partly because he is informed, partly because gold is a noble metal which does not corrode easily yet soft enough to show physical damage quickly, and partly because GSC's usual demographic doesn't generally buy gold so he's kind of a shark in the waters there. Not that they'd have any trouble selling gold without him, but they're not on the gold specialist's radar so he doesn't have much expert competition.