sigh Clio again

This strategy worked for me once but I probably can't rely on it too often and I had to bid before the last second in the hope he'd see it (he did)...

(I change my bidder name regularly)



I got off cheaply. He snapped up half of the rest of the Ready electrotypes in that auction.

 

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Tif,

Those were my electros. The one you bought I bought at coinex around 1994 from Sydney Mygind (not sure I'm spelling his last name correctly).

Barry Murphy.

 

Thanks for that pedigree info, Barry! I appreciate it

 

Haha, only the most awesome bidder handle in history. Good one Tif. And that is a very nice electrotype.

 

I guess I look at it a different way. I see him as bidding on coins that I would agree needed to be given an appreciative home --- coins I would like. I have only lost a few to him because I bid on few coins of high price. When he wins a lot that I found particularly appealing, whether I bid on it or was just looking, I tend to take it as confirmation of my good taste. I have not made quite the study of his habits that some of you have but I don't see wild and crazy bidding as much as careful selecting of highlights of the sale. I regret he is not a poster here (at least as far as I know). Hummmm, has he ever been seen at the same time as TIF? She is about the only other one around here that I consider to have really exceptional taste in coins. I will say the same thing to both of them: I am an orphan and available for adoption.

 

There was a time when if I got Clio'd, I'd be muttering curses under my breath (or sometimes shouting them out loud). Then, if I didn't get Clio'd, I'd be wondering if there was something wrong with the coin such that Clio didn't want it. It was like a lose-lose situation . I've since learned to accept the existential trial that is being in the same hobby as Clio. We own the coins that we can afford and those are the ones we should be happy to have. It's in any case highly unlikely that we'll run out of coins to buy before we run out of cash in the bank.

 

I actually used this same technique once and it may have helped me win a coin. I think I used "ClioYouDontWantThis" as my handle on Roma, and while he bought something like 70% of the RR bronzes in that sale, he skipped right over the one I was bidding on and that I really wanted.

 

I was blown out on every bid I placed in that auction. Ironically, I looked at this coin and debated for days on whether to bid or not. I decided against because I already have a nice Hadrian, but this really caught my eye. I guess I am glad I passed. I have yet to be Clio'ed and apparently avoided it again.

 

Coins of this nature do not belong in a collection of those who want one coin per ruler. The coin was listed as unpublished. It was a very untypical coin of Hadrian. It was an overstrike with identifiable undertype. It was Provincial silver. Specialists in any of those areas would want the coin and bid accordingly. It was not the sort of thing that would sell cheap and a much nicer looking 'ordinary' Hadrian - perhaps a travel series coin? - would be much more appropriate for the single Hadrian in a collection. At the show last week I saw and passed a real stunner of the Nilus reverse which was 1/3 the cost of this Cistophorus. I hate to think what you could get in a typical coin for $2k.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to build a one per ruler set using only 'only known' coins. It strikes me as ridiculous but we all see things differently.

 

Not necessarily. If I had not already purchased my Dupondius, I would have forced Clio to go to $3k on this and if I won, this would have been my only Hadrian.

BECAUSE

If I had not bought the dupondius, and had not placed bids across twelve coins totally $40k, I would have gone after this. I would have preferred this coin for all the reasons you mention. AND it would have filled my only need for a Hadrian. If I had won any of those coins or the medal near the end of the auction, I would have overspent....had I also got this. Therefore I could not chase this.

We all collect for different reasons. Your reasons and mine overlap at times and at times our reasons for bidding or not bidding are completely different.

 

There is no reason to over-analyze the bidding habits of Clio. He has more money than God (darn near, anyway). If he wants it he will buy it, either auction or fixed price. Its interesting, I have seen him make and also break some dealers. One dealer got him hooked on a certain modern series. After he bought $100k or so he got bored (or had all he wanted), but the dealer had invested everything he had into that series which nobody else was buying. As far as I know he is now out of business.

 

This Clio sounds like an urban myth to me.... oh wait I was Clio'd a while back on a Roma auction and at 10x the estimate
All I can say is it would be nice to see his ancients collection some day.

 

Maybe he melts them

 

I'm going to have nightmares for a week now. Thanks for that horrific image.

 

Urban myth: The unusual thing is for a very wealthy person wanting coins rather than paintings (Van Gogh and better?) or the like. In his book, Fun While it Lasted, Bruce McNall related the story of a question asked by the Hunt brothers (the ones who tried to corner the silver market). Having seen a Byzantine gold coin, they wanted to know how much it would cost to buy them all. They were not asking about a complete set; they meant 'them all'. If you don't know how that story ends, research it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Bunker_Hunt

I find it interesting that the Wikipedia piece on McNall only mentions coins as a 'claimed' beginning to his story. Time has destroyed the tale. I used to live for the arrival of McNall's Numismatic Fine Arts catalogs. Now they don't even make the text of Wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_McNall

 

Wow, crazy story. I guess it's yet another proof of the adage about putting all of your eggs in one basket.

 

NFA catalogues are like reference books with only the best examples shown in high quality photos. When they were in business i could barely afford the catalogs. But then, I am still collecting and never went to jail.

 

Doug,

Very interesting post. I really think everyone here ought to buy a copy of McNall's book (though the sections relating to his coin business are not as they should be, but his shenanigans were larger elsewhere, but it all started with coins). I think used copies are pretty cheap. His protege once commented that he wanted to be everything Bruce was, and he indeed did follow in his footsteps (though to my knowledge he is not is jail, yet).

 

Yes. While I no longer do coin shows it was always a big question. Where is "...." (I wont mention names as I am certain many appreciate anonymity). So many dealers (from the largest to the smallest) were relying on his purchases to make things work. After a few years and many millions of dollars he basically had most of what he wanted. The 'gravy train' was gone, and so were some dealers.