What's the Correct Denomination for Coins?

So, no growth, no new production, nothing to increase the pool of goods competing for a limited supply of money (which causes deflation)? Nothing is allowed to grow more quickly or more slowly than the supply of gold or silver?

 

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There is a Philip K Dick story about building a computer which serves no other function than to maintain the status quo...

Made me think of this quote from Abraham Lincoln:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

 

Nothing is allowed to grow more quickly or slowly that the supply of labor. Labor is the only thing which produces honest money. Mining gold, silver and copper are three ways of producing money which go back thousands of years but they are not the only way. Printing FRNs or betting on the stock market is not honest labor as they are based on the trust in an entity which can rescind its notes at any time.

Anything can be money and throughout history many things have been. But they have all been create through the use of labor (mining gold, harvesting seashells, raising cattle, etc.) But FRNs and other world fiat currency are not produced through someone's labor and neither is token coinage. They are all money but they are not honest money. Their value can be taken away at any time by the government.

It only takes an example like Weimar Germany to realize that those who kept their store of value in honest money (PMs) maintained it while those who kept in dishonest money (scraps of government issued paper) lost everything.

 

I didn't have time to write more earlier.

Policies have agency, of course, but their consequences don't—and you know this. I'm not splitting hairs; the reason I called attention to the incorrect "theft by inflation" is the same reason you criticized the graph in post #13 for being "misleading": The graph overdramatizes the decline in purchasing power (in the given years) and is therefore insidious in its use to advance the poster's agenda.

To assign agency to inflation does the same thing. Rather than discuss the rationale—the strengths and weaknesses—behind a particular federal reserve policy, to say that inflation steals our purchasing power is to create a shadowy "enemy" (i.e., the government) over which we have little or no control.

Although it may seem a simple language shortcut, such usage reveals an alarmist tone that borders on conspiracy theory. This always raises a red flag for me for it really does nothing to further a discussion.

 

I think you're being simplistic. We will never return to the gold standard; it cannot serve our contemporary economy. Gold possesses an arbitrary value (granted, based on rarity) and has no utility, unlike cattle, which can be eaten. Investing in the stock market is not "betting"; GE will not stop making washing machines or light bulbs tomorrow—which, after all, is honest labor, isn't it?

 

GE stopped making washing machines last year

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/16/business/dealbook/haier-ge-appliances.html?_r=0

I know it adds nothing to the discussion. Just having some fun

 

We are just going to have to agree to disagree because I don't see any valid argument you have put forward. It appears that you have inculcated with a Keynesian model which you cannot let go of.

Have you ever read How an Economy Grows and Why it Crashes by Peter Schiff? It can be read in two or three hours and is very educational as well as being a fun read.

 

I disagree that everything is the result of labor. Financial instruments certainly are not. FRNs definitely are not as the are produced simply by the FED deciding to create them out of nothing.

Gold and silver are convenient forms of money but far from the only ones. They have stood the test of time much better than other forms. Your idea that a government can wipe our that value just does not hold up to the test of time. They can wipe out the value of paper gold (a very modern concept) and they can make it illegal to own gold, but that does change its value. (And don't try to define its value in terms of fiat as that is just artificial.) Gold and silver will still be there long after the dollar has met its demise.

As I said, read that book I recommend. It will help you see the light.

 

Yes it does. If it is illegal to own something it because worthless to the overwhelming majority of people. Very few people are willing to risk prison dealing in black markets

Yet they still won't be money.

 

Gold still held its value after it was confiscated in 1933. Had it not done so then there would have been no reason to confiscate it. Collectible coins were still legal to own. Gold held overseas was not confiscated. Families who held onto their gold were well rewarded in the long term.

Oh, but they will be. 1/10th oz AGE will still have enough value to purchase somthing currently price somewhere in the region of $100-$150, even if the sticker price says $100,000.

 

That wasn't exactly a confiscation. You had initially said if its made illegal to own in the previous post. The 33 issue is an animal all of its own.

Maybe, maybe not. It's only purchasing power right now is 5 dollars, unless of course you turn it into actual money

 

It was never, ever illegal to buy or sell gold in the form of jewelry, not to mention collectible coins. Furthermore, the dollar was still pegged to gold until the 1970s. Under those circumstances, I don't see how it makes sense to draw conclusions about gold "holding its value".

 

Marijuana and prohibition certainly seem to show that sometimes the legality of something doesn't really matter. In fact making both of those things illegal only made them more valuable.

 

Please not try to circumvent things by referring to FRNs as money. The N in FRN stands for note. That is, it is promise to pay by an entity which has shown itself totally incapable of paying its debts. It only works as a medium of exchange because the federal government requires it. States are starting to make PMs a valid way to pay taxes and other bills. I'm also betting that panzerman would be will to work for you and accept payment in gold, as would many others here

 

Mind altering substances where addicts will do anything to get them will always have value until the end of time. Not really comparable to some random metal.

 

They are money. That is how bills/salaries/purchases are paid. If you don't believe they are get rid off all the ones you have and see how metals work out as "money".

Very few and it was a stunt for votes that went no where.

 

I already do. I keep my bank balance at a minimum and only keep enough to pay my bills because it is mandated that that is how I do so. But all dollars which are not needed are immediately converted to something more reliable, PMs being a small part of that.